Double Feed into Switch

[Mnayler]

Afternoon all,

Hopefully a relatively easy one for those in the know.

Recently moved into a new house and have set about installing the dishwasher and washing machine. So the washing machine and (new) dishwasher have never been properly plugged in. No idea why or what they did, but I can only assume that they ran an extension lead every time needed to use the washing machine...

There was a blanking plate behind the washing machine so took it off and there's a power lead behind it.

I bought a double plug and fitted it (had to extend it from a single to double) and... No power.

I'm assuming that it comes from one of the switches about the counter. Just a single switch. No label. The switch next to it, is fused and turns off the boiler.

I took it off and tested it with my multimeter and it has power.

However, it has two 'feeds' which I have no idea why. There is a group of cables underneath which weren't connected to the 'load'. I'm assuming that these disconnected wires go down to the plug I've fitted underneath.

I can't really figure out why there would be two lines going into the feed. Is this safe? Should I just keep one set in or both?

Any advice would be appreciated!

Cheers,
Matt

 

[ETAF]

is it part of the ring main circuit - that would have 2 cables into Mains IN / Supply , I have seen a fused switch on rings in a few houses

 

[Mnayler]

I believe it is yes. Only been in the house a few days so not 100% with it all.

Just measured both with my multimeter and they're both powered so I'm assuming it's part of the ring.

 

[bernardgreen]

that would have 2 cables into load

that would have 2 cables into load supply

 

[ETAF]

good point my bad - LINE IN / supply - thanks
edited my post

 

[winston1]

I bought a double plug and fitted it (had to extend it from a single to double) and... No power.

Double SOCKET.

However it is not good to install 2 high power devices like a washing machine and dish washer into a double sosket.

 

[JohnW2]

However it is not good to install 2 high power devices like a washing machine and dish washer into a double sosket.

Neither a washing machine nor a dishwasher draw high currents for appreciable periods of time. I think it's when one of the appliances is a dryer (which can draw high current more-or-less continuously) that some people experience (socket) over-heating problems.

 

[sparkwright]

Might be a good idea to use a decent make double socket though.

Also, might be an idea to replace the switched fused connection unit for a 20amp double pole switch.

And, may be worth checking the cable that was disconnected isn't damaged first - as seems a bit odd it was disconnected.

 

[Mnayler]

All very good points, thank you all for the input. I previously lived somewhere which barely needed any electrical work so this is all new to me so I appreciate any and all opinions.

Might be a good idea to use a decent make double socket though.

Also, might be an idea to replace the switched fused connection unit for a 20amp double pole switch.

And, may be worth checking the cable that was disconnected isn't damaged first - as seems a bit odd it was disconnected.

It was just a standard own-brand Wickes one I picked up yesterday but you are completely right, I will grab a better quality one if only for piece of mind and I'll replace the fused connection unit as well to be sure.

As far as I could tell the cable was fine. I'd hazard a guess that it hadn't been used previously. The previous owners had been here since it was new ('98 build.) I've just finished removing a picture rail in the living room stuck on with copious amounts of double sided tape among other things... So they don't strike me as the type to go to the effort of taking off a socket and blanking it. But who knows?

 

[sparkwright]

MK double sockets are supposedly made to take two 13amp loads.

 

[JohnW2]

MK double sockets are supposedly made to take two 13amp loads.

We've been over this many times before, and one would think/hope that what you say is correct. For donkey's years MK double sockets have been said (by MK) to be rated at "13A per socket outlet" but much as one might think that the answer was obviously "two", even the Tech people at MK have told me that they are not certain whether the person who wrote that was thinking that a double socket had one or two "outlets"!

The other confusing thing (if one assumes that the spec does mean that MK double sockets are 'rated' for 2 x 13A) is the following, apparently from some MK catalogue or data sheet, which was posted on the IET forum some 12 years ago, which I have posted several times here. It reads ...

All MK socket-outlets are manufactured to comply with BS1363 part 2: 1995 and are rated at 13A per unit. Double socket-outlets have been manufactured and tested to exceed this rating by margin that allows electrical safety and reduces the risk of heat and mechanical damage to components due to overloading. It should be noted that BS1363 part 2: 1995 does not allow double sockets to operate at twice the permissible maximum loading and it should be remembered that double socket-outlets are not manufactured to be able to withstand a 26A load for sustained periods of time.

Research by ourselves and third party organisations has shown that all MK double sockets can safely withstand a continuous load of 19.5A for an indefinite period. Increasing the load slightly will begin to cause heat and mechanical stresses on the components in a relatively short period. Testing showed that a load of 22.3A was sufficient to cause heat stress that would cause a browning of the faceplates and sufficient heat to cause insulation damage to cable cores. A load of 24A for 43 hours was sufficient to cause significant heat damage to the material in which the socket-outlet was situated and within 75 hours sufficient to cause significant damage that would lead to the very real potential of fire.

MK recommend that users of their sockets consult professional design Engineers when designing installations to avoid the possibility of heat and mechanical stress to components and installations caused by overloading of MK socket-outlets.

As you can see, this one says "13A per unit", whatever that means!

As I've reported before, the excuse of the MK Technical guy for not being absolutely certain of what their 'Technical Data Sheet' actually meant was that he said that "Technical Data Sheets" were produce by the Marketing Dept, not the Technical one

Kind Regards, John

 

[denso13]

like a washing machine and dish washer into a double sosket.

What's a sosket?

 

[sparkwright]

WWE';ve been over this many times before, and one would think/hope that what you say is correct. For donkey's years MK double sockets have been said (by MK) to be rated at "13A per socket outlet" but much as one might think that the answer was obviously "two", even the TEch people at MK have tolkd me that they are not certain whether the person who wrote that was thinking that a double socket had one or two "outlets"!

The other confusing thing (if one assumes that the spec does mean that MK double sockets are 'rated' for 2 x 13A) is the following, apparently from some MK catalogue or data sheet, which was posted on the IET forum some 12 years ago, which I have posted several times here. It reads ...



As I've reported before, the excuse of the MK Technical guy for not being absolutely certain of what their 'Technical Data Sheet' actually meant was that he said that "Technical Data Sheets" were produce by the Marketing Dept, not the Technical one

Kind Regards, John

Thanks for clearing that up.

Wasn't there an image somewhere of the back of a MK double socket, with something like 26 amps written on the back?

Or did someone doctor the image?

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm not sure whether that is meant as a sarcastic comment, or what - but what I wrote obviously results in more uncertainties than answers!

Wasn't there an image somewhere of the back of a MK double socket, with something like 26 amps written on the back? Or did someone doctor the image?

I don't recall that image, and nor do I recall ever having seen anything like that on a socket - but I suppose I've never gone looking for it!

Kind Regards, John

 

[sparkwright]

I'm not sure whether that is meant as a sarcastic comment, or what - but what I wrote obviously results in more uncertainties than answers!
I don't recall that image, and nor do I recall ever having seen anything like that on a socket - but I suppose I've never gone looking for it!

Kind Regards, John

No sarcasm intended whatsoever.

I'm sure there will be someone here who uses MK regularly and can tell us what's written on the back.