Double socket keeps failing

[AndyPRK]

How did you know I was referring to you ?

 

[Milleniumaire]

The socket if behind the unit may be on the load side of an Fcu mounted elsewhere,hence the single cable

I wonder if the washing machine socket is fed from the fcu which the fuse was replaced in, when the washing machine got to the heating part of the cycle, this would blow the 3a fuse

An electrician checked it out yesterday and determined that the double socket was in fact connected to the fused spur that I had assumed was for the extractor hood, so you got this exactly right. Thanks guys. He fixed it by putting (back) in a 13 amp fuse. Looks like it was down to me changing the fuse, thinking I was providing more protection for the extractor Time to label the Fcu's I think.

As the cooker hood has now been removed he also checked the wiring to the extractor junction box and confirmed it was live. Unfortunately, he didn't track down the source of the extractor cable, but there are definitely no more fused spurs in the kitchen, so it may be there is no fused protection for the extractor.

Before I fit the new extractor I need to confirm this as the extractor needs to be protected by a 3 amp fuse. It's possible this is why the old one failed.

As well as the supply to the Fcu in question, there are two additional cables wired into it; one off the load connectors to the double socket (as I now know) and another off the supply connectors heading off in the direction of the extractor cable! I need to determine if this cable is actually the supply to the extractor.

What is the benefit in having a double socket spur wired upto a Fcu? Because appliances would be plugged into the socket they would already have fused protection, so why the additional layer of fused protection in the Fcu? Is this meant to protect against the load on the single spur cable in the event that multiple appliances may be plugged in?

 

[Milleniumaire]

Irresponsible person.
You obviously don't care a jot about your tenants. Who would put paying tenants into their property knowing the previous owner was a botcher without having the installation professionally inspected, which it would appear you have not done?

Who said it had never been professionally inspected? This is YOUR assumption and is not true. Do you have anything constructive to add? I didn't think so.

 

[conny]

By law rented property should be inspected between change of tenants and the tenant should, ideally, be given a copy or notice to say it has been inspected and up to standard. This also applies to gas/oil installations.

 

[EFLImpudence]

As well as the supply to the Fcu in question, there are two additional cables wired into it; one off the load connectors to the double socket (as I now know) and another off the supply connectors heading off in the direction of the extractor cable!

Presumably the other leg of the ring circuit.

What is the benefit in having a double socket spur wired upto a Fcu?

So that you can switch it off.

Because appliances would be plugged into the socket they would already have fused protection, so why the additional layer of fused protection in the Fcu?

There is no advantage. You may as well have just a switch.

Is this meant to protect against the load on the single spur cable in the event that multiple appliances may be plugged in?

No. It is just fitted for use as a switch.

 

[EFLImpudence]

By law rented property should be inspected between change of tenants and the tenant should, ideally, be given a copy or notice to say it has been inspected and up to standard.

There is no such law in England and Wales.

The landlord has a duty of care to ensure the installation is safe for use.
A proper EICR would be one way to do this - but there are cursory inspections made cheaply which just act as a buck-passing exercise to have someone else to blame.

 

[JohnW2]

There is no advantage. You may as well have just a switch. .... No. It is just fitted for use as a switch.

... and, of course, switched FCUs are (because of the larger market?) often cheaper than DP switches.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Perhaps that is the reason it is the larger market.

 

[Milleniumaire]

By law rented property should be inspected between change of tenants and the tenant should, ideally, be given a copy or notice to say it has been inspected and up to standard. This also applies to gas/oil installations.

Only gas requires an annual safety inspection by law.

 

[bernardgreen]

There is no such law in England and Wales.

Not yet but quoting from THIS Government_Response_to_Electrical_Safety_in_the_Private_Rented_Sector consultation

The consultation ran from 17 February to 16 April 2018 and received 582 responses from a range of organisations and individuals across the sector, including electricians, landlord associations, housing charities, local authorities, as well as individual landlords and tenants and fire and rescue representatives. The majority of respondents supported most of the recommendations of the working group.
Following the working group and this consultation, the Government announced on 19 July that regulations would be introduced requiring private sector landlords to undertake five yearly safety checks of electrical installations in their properties.

How long before these regulations are introduced ?

Regulations requiring landlords to have electrical installations in privately rented homes checked every five years will be introduced as soon as parliamentary time allows.

The regulations will be subject to the affirmative procedure and will need to be debated and approved in both Houses of Parliament before they can be brought into force.

 

[JohnW2]

.... How long before these regulations are introduced ? .... Regulations requiring landlords to have electrical installations in privately rented homes checked every five years will be introduced as soon as parliamentary time allows.

Given the plethora of 'other matters' that are likely to need parliamentary time in the forthcoming years, I certainly would not be holding my breath!

Furthermore, just as is the case with RCDs, although these compulsory regular inspections of electrical installations sound like a very good/sensible idea, I have to wonder how many documented cases there are of tenants coming to harm because of electrical problems that would not have existed had regular inspections been undertaken? ... and, of course, if it could be shown to be justified, then why restrict the 'protection' to those in privately rented accommodation?

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

Who said it had never been professionally inspected?

Well, either it was inspected by someone who did not pick up on any issues (like the washing machine socket without backbox) or you chose not to carry out any of the suggested improvements. But by your own admission the installation is not to current standards (which in itself may not be an issue) and has been subject to a bodging DIY'er, which you knew before you found the washing machine socket. Personally, if I was letting my property, I would want it to have a thorough inspection and any dangerous situations rectified, before anyone moved in.

You mention PAT testing - are the appliances yours?

If you don't like what I say, ignore me or don't read my posts!

 

[winston1]

Looks like it was down to me changing the fuse, thinking I was providing more protection for the extractor Time to label the Fcu's I think.

The fuse is NOT to protect the extractor. It is to protect the cable.

[QUOTE="Milleniumaire, post: 4402685, member: 134380"
Before I fit the new extractor I need to confirm this as the extractor needs to be protected by a 3 amp fuse. It's possible this is why the old one failed.

[/QUOTE]

As I said above the fuse is to protect the cable not what is on the end of it. The extractor should have internal protection. It won't fail due to the size of any fuse.

 

[conny]

My apologies for saying it was law to be inspected between tenants. I was told this a number of times by letting agents in Liverpool when my daughter was looking for a flat.
When I moved to Suffolk both properties I have rented have had it done before I was given the keys. The first one had gas and electric certs and my present one had oil heating and electric certs. We have a copy of the present ones in a box file in the loft. Should be due for another inspection on the electrics next year. Heating system gets an annual maintenance visit by an independent company.

Again, my apologies for believing it was the law.

 

[terryplumb]

My apologies for saying it was law to be inspected between tenants. I was told this a number of times by letting agents in Liverpool when my daughter was looking for a flat.
When I moved to Suffolk both properties I have rented have had it done before I was given the keys. The first one had gas and electric certs and my present one had oil heating and electric certs. We have a copy of the present ones in a box file in the loft. Should be due for another inspection on the electrics next year. Heating system gets an annual maintenance visit by an independent company.

Again, my apologies for believing it was the law.

Liverpool has a " landlords licensing scheme ".All private landlords have to hold a licence ,and one of the many licence conditions is that the electrical installations have to be periodically inspected ,same with gas ( annually) etc.