Double Switch to Timer

[stillp]

this is more or less a brand new house and we purchased from quite a well known and respected home builder

Perhaps they should be sorting it out then?

 

[sparkwright]

So please explain how the 2 way has a 3c t&e at each end without any lives or switchlines

For a start, '3c t&e' as you call it is a contradiction in terms.

I can't be sure if the vestiboule switch on the 2 gang switch is fed solely from a single 3 core+e cable or not.

It's perfectly normal for both two way switches to only have one 3 core+e cable at each of them.

There could be a junction box somewhere, or they are jointed at the light fitting, or there could even be a hidden intermediate switch with a 2 core+e switch wire supplying it.

Sunray is on the right lines.

Though I can't help thinking there may be a better way of doing this without removing the two way function.

 

[sparkwright]

Send a clearer picture if you can.

 

[deadshort]

Assuming there are no other wires hidden in the hall switch, as I see it, this is quite straight forward.
The two brown wires in com of outside switch go to live of the timer.
The single brown of outzide switch go to load of timer.
Brown and grey of vestibule switch connected together in choc bloc.
Black becomes redundant and to be protected in a choc bloc, ideally at both ends.
I dont see any problems or botches in this set-up, in fact by many of todays installs this is quite good.

100% agree

DS

 

[endecotp]

There are four cables coming into the switch; from left to right:

1. T&E going to outside light.
2. T&E power coming in.
3. 3&E strapper to other switch.
4. T&E to vestibule light.

For the outside light, live in (cable 2) goes to COM of left switch, L1 of that switch goes to live to the light (cable 1).

For the vestibule light, live in (cable 2) is connected to brown of the 3&E (at COM of the left switch) and goes to the other switch and comes back on either grey or black to L1 and L2 of the right switch. COM of the right switch goes to live of vestibule light (cable 4).

No extra wiring hidden anywhere, all simple enough I think.
Anyone disagree?

 

[sparkwright]

There are four cables coming into the switch; from left to right:

1. T&E going to outside light.
2. T&E power coming in.
3. 3&E strapper to other switch.
4. T&E to vestibule light.

For the outside light, live in (cable 2) goes to COM of left switch, L1 of that switch goes to live to the light (cable 1).

For the vestibule light, live in (cable 2) is connected to brown of the 3&E (at COM of the left switch) and goes to the other switch and comes back on either grey or black to L1 and L2 of the right switch. COM of the right switch goes to live of vestibule light (cable 4).

No extra wiring hidden anywhere, all simple enough I think.
Anyone disagree?

Very well described.

 

[SUNRAY]

There are four cables coming into the switch; from left to right:

1. T&E going to outside light.
2. T&E power coming in.
3. 3&E strapper to other switch.
4. T&E to vestibule light.

For the outside light, live in (cable 2) goes to COM of left switch, L1 of that switch goes to live to the light (cable 1).

For the vestibule light, live in (cable 2) is connected to brown of the 3&E (at COM of the left switch) and goes to the other switch and comes back on either grey or black to L1 and L2 of the right switch. COM of the right switch goes to live of vestibule light (cable 4).

No extra wiring hidden anywhere, all simple enough I think.
Anyone disagree?

I completely agree but didn't want to confuse CF with too much detail.
Actually what I would do is: enlarge the hole in the plasterboard and fit a twin (to take 2 single size fittings) back box and fit a (new) single gang switch for the vestibule light as well as the timer, retaining the existing facilities but I feel CF may not think the effort is worthwhile.

 

[333rocky333]

Agree with efl and endecopt

The one way switch is standard Live in and Switchline out.

The 2 way is a mixture of the two methods of wiring 2way.

Normal practise would be to put Live and a Switchline across the two strappers, within the 2 gang switch, therefore 2 strappers and a solid com to com link to the other switch.

What the installers done has sent the feed via the 3 core brown to the other 1 gang 2 way switch and kept the switchline at the 2 gang switch

Not sure why hes done so, but it works
Actually its quicker to connect, no silly link wire and less terminals with 2 cables in, so on a big housing project would save some time.

Another option is to leave be and to wire a timer, alongside the switch, with a neutral connection and use the Normally open contacts to switch across the 2 strappers

 

[securespark]

This looks like a bodge carried out by someone with very little electrical knowledge. Somewhere else there other electrical terminations that make this work, possibly in the back of the lights or a junction box.

And I'm not clear what you are trying to achieve and why do you need a timer?

Can you explain why you think it is a bodge?

The switch is a timer switch which will turn the light on and off automatically. Why does he need a timer? Because he wants to be able to turn the light on and off automatically.

 

[securespark]

Perhaps they should be sorting it out then?

There may be nothing to sort out!!

 

[EFLImpudence]

Agree with efl and endecopt

To be fair, SUNRAY got it first.

(Wrote that last night but forgot to post)

 

[EFLImpudence]

So please explain how the 2 way has a 3c t&e at each end without any lives or switchlines

Not the case in this thread, but:

 

[SUNRAY]

Can you explain why you think it is a bodge?

As far as I can see there is nothing botched here, in fact I'll go further and describe it as perfectly normal. It would have been nice to see a connector that is not lose in the back box but we can't expect everything to be perfect and it does look tidy.
I know EFL's wiring post is only to explain how it can be done with a 3c&e at each end but please don't try to follow it in this case, as he states: it is not wired this way, in fact it is not representative in any way.
Edit; Oh I expected mwatsons quote to be included.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Edit; Oh I expected mwatsons quote to be included.

It doesn't work like that any more. It used to, but then they changed it and took that away.

Please add your complaint here: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/quoting.458551/page-2

The more people complain, the more likely they are to fix it.