Electric IP64 Towel rail heater 45cm above head end of bath

[mark.carline]

I have purchased a bisque towel rail as follows:

http://www.bisque.co.uk/page_533.html

and I have purchased the supplimentary electric heater as follows:

http://www.bisque.co.uk/page_808.html

The supplimentary heater says that it is IP64 rated and so I should be ok to site this in a Zone 2 area as per this link:

http://www.stopbox.co.uk/site/bathroom-lights-ip.htm

The layout of my bathroom is such that the "head" end and the "tap" end of the bath have vertial walls coming up from the edge of the bath (is a small bathroom). The bottom of the heater is going to be located 45cm above the head end of the bath (ie no where near the taps or shower).

Is this going to be ok ?

Does anyone know if there are flex outlets that are suitable that I can use with the flex that comes with the supplimentary heater?

 

[Chivers7]

The layout of my bathroom is such that the "head" end and the "tap" end of the bath have vertial walls coming up from the edge of the bath (is a small bathroom). The bottom of the heater is going to be located 45cm above the head end of the bath (ie no where near the taps or shower).

Is this going to be ok ?

Doesn't this mean you want to install it in Zone 0ne so therefore against the regs and manufactures recommendations

 

[mark.carline]

Doesn't this mean you want to install it in Zone 0ne so therefore against the regs and manufactures recommendations

not sure - at the head end of the bath where does zone 1 finish and zone 2 start ?

Looking at this diagram:

http://www.stopbox.co.uk/site/bathroom-lights-ip.htm

and looking at this one you see the head end is right on the border between zone 1 and zone 2:

http://www.lightingworld.co.uk/content.php/35120

 

[securespark]

It also says:

Zone 1 is the area above the bath to a height of 2.25m from the floor. In this zone a minimum rating of IP44 is required. If the fitting is 240 volts, a 30mA residual current device (RCD) must also be used to protect the circuit in this zone.

However, you cannot mount standard accessories in this zone.

 

[mark.carline]

It also says:

Zone 1 is the area above the bath to a height of 2.25m from the floor. In this zone a minimum rating of IP44 is required. If the fitting is 240 volts, a 30mA residual current device (RCD) must also be used to protect the circuit in this zone.

However, you cannot mount standard accessories in this zone.

so I am going to be fine to use this heater in that zone.

The problem is that I now need to work out what kind of accessories I need to connect the 2 foot of cable to?

I was thinking of installing it via:

1) A standard plastic spur outlet plate like this one:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=46753&ts=84851
2) A metal back box like this one:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=A331913&ts=84953&id=79195
3) Plastic trunking burried in plaster just larger than the cable flex which is then fed from the metal back box to an area under the bath. The 2 foot of flex cable will slide neatly though the hole in the plastic spur and then down the trunking pipe until it reaches the..
4) Then in the area under the bath I can join the 2 foot of flex to a longer length of flex via one of these connectors rated at IP67:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=12534&ts=85103
or one of these:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=A331819&ts=85447&id=15995

I can then take the long flex to a cuboard in the hall (outside the bathroom) for connection to an 30mA RCA and timer.

In effect all I have done is extended the length of the cable to the cuboard in the hall.

Seem reasonable ?

 

[Steve]

Mark, do you know about part p?

 

[mark.carline]

Mark, do you know about part p?

yes

 

[IJWS15]

I think that the others are trying to tell you that you are trying to intall an appliance in Zone 1 (Above the bath).

You cannot do that unless the appliance is rated for Zone 1 - The manufacturer will say if it is, if they dont say it is then it is not. The link you posted leads to a data sheet which does not quote a bathroom zone suitability so I would suggest it must be installed outside the zones. If in doubt speak to the manufacturer's technical help line.

As I understand Part P (I am not a pro) any electrical work in a bathroom is notifiable. If you don't follow the regs it may be very dangerous (i.e. Danger of Death) and if you don't have certification to say you have followed the regs you may make your house unsaleable (sellers packs and all that!).

Your house - your choice, but not necessarily your life at risk.

 

[mark.carline]

I think that the others are trying to tell you that you are trying to intall an appliance in Zone 1 (Above the bath).

You cannot do that unless the appliance is rated for Zone 1 - The manufacturer will say if it is, if they dont say it is then it is not. The link you posted leads to a data sheet which does not quote a bathroom zone suitability so I would suggest it must be installed outside the zones. If in doubt speak to the manufacturer's technical help line.

Thanks and I agree the area I am talking about is in ZONE 1. I'll give Bisque a ring and check, at the moment I am designing the bathroom and as such I am deciding what bits I am buying along with how they are going to be installed. The heating element mentioned in the 1st post above is rated at IP64 and reading the link below:

http://www.lightingworld.co.uk/content.php/35120

It says this:

Zone 1 is the area above the bath to a height of 2.25m from the floor. In this zone a minimum rating of IP44 is required. If the fitting is 240 volts, a 30mA residual current device (RCD) must also be used to protect the circuit in this zone.

So in conclusion I am going to be OK to use this heater in Zone 1 as its actually a higher spec (IP64 is higher than IP44). I can now get on with chipping the plaster off etc ready to feed the 10mm microbore copper heating pipes.

As I understand Part P (I am not a pro) any electrical work in a bathroom is notifiable. If you don't follow the regs it may be very dangerous (i.e. Danger of Death) and if you don't have certification to say you have followed the regs you may make your house unsaleable (sellers packs and all that!).

Dont panic - I am trying to make sure that all the donkey work is done before any of the electrical work is done by an electrician. After it doesnt make sence for an electrician to pull up floor boards, chipping plaster off the walls, plastering etc etc etc.

 

[bernardgreen]

If you read the leaflet from Bisque you will find.

BTH supplementary heaters are manufactured to conform to
the IPX4 rating and are ‘splash proof’ and suitable for use in
bathrooms.Electric heaters should be fitted only by a qualified electrician
and must be earthed and connected to a cable outlet in the
bathroom in accordance with I.E.E. wiring regulations. The
electrical connection should be made to a ‘5 amp fused fixed
spur’ located outside the bathroom.

By suggesting that you are not sure if a wall that is touching the bath is zone 1 or 2 you indicate you are not a qualified electrician and do NOT have the necessary knowledge.

 

[mark.carline]

By suggesting that you are not sure if a wall that is touching the bath is zone 1 or 2 you indicate you are not a qualified electrician and do NOT have the necessary knowledge.

to do what excactly ???????

I never said I was doing any electrical work myself - Just the preparation.

I wanted to get the following work done myself:

- Decide what type of electrical heater to use
- Where it is going be be located
- Chipping out plaster
- Provision of copper pipes to radiator (from water heating system)
- Make good the wall behind the radiator.
- Screwing the radiator fittings to the wall.
- Connecting the supplimentary heater to the radiator
- Connecting the radiator to the existing central heating system

All of which I understand I can do myself with no worries about part P and I can get the electrician to do the electrical work. I sometimes wonder that this part P stuff is being used by electricians to scaremonger people into thinking that they cant do anything themselves and to generate more work for electricians.

Am I expected to bring my electrician in to the radiator showroom and ask him "Is that going to be ok in my bathroom on that wall" ? - I dont need to be part P qualified to answer that question as long as I have an understanding of exactly what the rules & regs are - which is the reason for my post !

Looking at some of the other threds on this board I somtimes wonder if there is some kind of automated reply on this board that says "are you part p qualified?" or "do you know part p" etc etc etc.

Anyway its all sorted now and thanks to the above people that have helped me.

EDIT: I have just done some more looking around for a flex outlet that I could use and I have found these, anyone seen/used anything like this ??

Ref: CHP-00-33 - Traditional Element Cover
http://www.smrbathrooms.co.uk/acatalog/Fulbourn_8_Wall_Mounted_Towel_Rails.html

Element Covers
http://www.tradeplumbing.co.uk/Cher...Towel-Rail-1-1500mm-H-x-450mm-W_p_0-2401.html

 

[Steve]

Just dont get RF Lighting to fit it for you:

 

[mark.carline]

get on your horse and drink your milk….

 

[bernardgreen]

By suggesting that you are not sure if a wall that is touching the bath is zone 1 or 2 you indicate you are not a qualified electrician and do NOT have the necessary knowledge.

to do what excactly ???????

I never said I was doing any electrical work myself - Just the preparation.

I wanted to get the following work done myself:

- Decide what type of electrical heater to use
- Where it is going be be located


- Chipping out plaster
- Provision of copper pipes to radiator (from water heating system)
- Make good the wall behind the radiator.
- Screwing the radiator fittings to the wall.
- Connecting the supplimentary heater to the radiator
- Connecting the radiator to the existing central heating system

Am I expected to bring my electrician in to the radiator showroom and ask him "Is that going to be ok in my bathroom on that wall" ?

Asking the electricians advice before buying the heater would very likely be a good idea

 

[mark.carline]

Asking the electricians advice before buying the heater would very likely be a good idea

ok thanks - but what else is he going to tell me other than the information found on here:

http://www.lightingworld.co.uk/content.php/35120