Electrician and regulations

[ebee]

We suspect that he didn’t do an EICR in order to fleece us, he alleged immediately after installing the consumer unit that the property needed a full re-wire. If I describe what happened next, it could identify me, but suffice to say, he caused substantial damage in more ways than one. We only realised after the event that an EICR prior to installation is best practice.

An EICR has since been completed and it found the fuse box to be untidy, live wires were also left exposed in x3 locations in property.

“Qualified” was presumed on the basis of him having Napit membership.

"he alleged immediately after installing the consumer unit that the property needed a full re-wire."

We suspect that he didn’t do an EICR in order to fleece us, he alleged immediately after installing the consumer unit that the property needed a full re-wire. If I describe what happened next, it could identify me, but suffice to say, he caused substantial damage in more ways than one. We only realised after the event that an EICR prior to installation is best practice.

An EICR has since been completed and it found the fuse box to be untidy, live wires were also left exposed in x3 locations in property.

“Qualified” was presumed on the basis of him having Napit membership.

"he alleged immediately after installing the consumer unit that the property needed a full re-wire"

Well sometimes we might do a full/part EICR or even a cursory visual whilst doing something else and think that looks not good/terrible etc and consider that a few things should be done or a full rewire or sometimes we might suspect a full rewire might be the best, most prudent, option in the end. In fact sometimes we might begin thinking a place looks half decent but then as some intended works is commenced/we start looking more then we start to think "hmm not good" and sometimes those thoughts snowball into a crescendo .
So he might have done this in good faith or yes he might be fleecing you.

Should he have noticed those 3 live wires exposed- probably.

“Qualified” was presumed on the basis of him having Napit membership

You, as an ordinary person, might quite understandingly think so but some of us from skill and experience might not .

Ref the untidy fusebox, in itself, that doesn`t always mean bad so unless you can be more specific about things it would not bother me.

 

[ericmark]

I did know the competent person was removed, however the adequate education, training and practical skills is new, but same thing applies, what is adequate? Any electrical who has done an apprenticeship will satisfy the criteria, however when I did my apprenticeship although we did have day release, there was nothing forcing us to attend collage. In my dads time it was 7 years, and he had 2 years journeyman, where he needed to do 6 months in 4 different firms to see how other firms worked. By my time it had dropped to 5 years, and in essence the collage provided the journeyman apex, and since that time the school leaving age has increased more, and so more is taught in college to cram in the information quicker, the idea as by around the age of 21 one is qualified.

The problem arose when we joined the EU, and we were forced to allow EU tradesmen to work in this country, so we could not ask for British qualifications with maybe the exception of proof they understood BS 7671 regulations as our ring final is not used in rest of Europe.

I must admit when working with German electricians I have needed to point out you can't do that here, like no bends in conduit and running cables in free air between one straight bit of conduit and the next. Also not permitted their sockets.

I know there have been some American basis in this country with houses using USA sockets and 120 volt supply, I don't know what was done about the 60 Hz, but there is nothing that says a house can't be wired to for example German spec for visiting German staff, it would need to be done through the LABC as clearly it would not comply with British regulations, they would need to ensure it did comply with German regulations, how they would read them I don't know, but they would issue the completion certificate.

Now we have left the EU that could be changed, but would not hold your breath.

However following BS 7671 one should get either a minor works or installation certificate for every job, be it commercial or domestic, not quite sure about when things are removed? Can't really inspect and test some thing removed.

But in the real world, I may be asked to do some small job at work, which I will do safely, but I have not got a pad of certificates, so readings will go on a scrap bit of paper, and given to the guy who normally does the electrical work to log. This is not how it should work, but I only do electrical work now in an emergency. i.e. electrician has caught colvid etc.

And often we don't work to the book, we will with a major job, but swap a socket etc. We test of course, but often we don't bother to log the work. I would say "He removed an old consumer unit and replaced it with a modern one" is major work, and one would expect him to provide one with an installation certificate, but the law only requires either a completion or compliance certificate, daft I know but the owner is responsible for getting the completion certificate, if the electrician in any way indicates he is a scheme member, then the onus swaps to the electrician.

It is up to the owner to find out if the electrician is a scheme member, and if not, it is the owner who needs to tell the LABC before the work starts, and having made the mistake myself, and not realising the builder was not doing it as he promised, I went to tell the LABC I was taking over the job. I wished I had never opened my big mouth, but you can't untell them. So then had to jump through all the hoops.

Yes I got the completion certificate, but they did not do anything, they missed the fact the lintel was only supported on one end, and never inspected the finished job, the certificate just arrived in the post.

So big question is if worth it to go to LABC after the event? It would likely cost around £500 to sort, so is it worth it?

 

[ebee]

Wow, Eric, plenty of interesting info there. Yes it used to be a different world.
I don`t quite concur that BS 7671 actually needed to be understood by Europeans (unless of course they were joining a scheme), in fact was not the IEE Wiring Regs adopted by BSA as BS7671 in order to give it more status when faced with our visitors from the EU and elsewhere?
In fact the Approved Doc did mention BS7671 or an equivalent European Standard of being one way of achieving Part P requirements - in the original approved doc. (It did not actually mention that adopting standards of other civilised countries was not allowed, so providing they could be safely undertaken on our domestics then I`d suggest not prohibited either, although it might cause a headache for LABC amongst others).
But yes, very interesting comments you made there, thanks.

 

[securespark]

Back in our day, training covered many more areas than it appears to today

Many years ago, I needed to go and see my old college chancellor to get him to write a letter confirming that my course gave me the equivalent of A levels in a couple of subjects I needed.

We talked about how the BTEC course was and he said that when I took it, we covered everything from A-Z but these days, he said, it had been watered down to A-C, with a smattering of information from other letters.