Electrician to test sockets? Scam or not??

[Jaymack]

Hi forum users,
After having conservatory built on back of house we have had 1st fix of electrics installed, had to have a new up to date fuse box installed by same sparky as we had the old style. That's all in and working, he said once in he will do tests, it's come back saying we have a dodgy plug somewhere, he has given us the option of either a days labour charge or to charge per plug. If he found the faulty plug at the beginning I'm quids in, however if it was the last plug it will cost an arm and a leg. He spoke to my wife about this as I was at work but said only way of finding fault was to remove each socket and check wiring??!! Surely a plug socket tester is easier solution??
Any thoughts from you ppl??

A periodic inspection report is recommended by the scheme providers, before changing a distribution board, this should detect most latent defects and departures from BS7671. As this report can take 5/6 hours on an average domestic 3 roomed property, the expense of this report is not usually always accepted by most. This would result in any latent defects, being detected after a board change, there is then a justified, additional cost for remedial work. The options should be spelled out to any potential customer. Sockets on ring mains can have loose connections, so giving high ohmic readings etc., these would require to be corrected before connection to the new board; or alternative measures taken to make the circuit safe.

Also he said my mains water is not earthed nor the boiler so is quoting to do that, is this important to be done?

This lack of bonding to the mains water should have been seen; and allowed for at the time of quoting. It is not usually necessary to have a separate bond to the boiler, if the main bonding is in place; electrics to the boiler should have their own circuit protective conductor within the serving cable.

 

[OwainDIYer]

I can see BAS point but would it take a whole day to test 8 sockets? Just asking, not arguing, I don't know how long it could take.

Test and rectification of the fault, yes.

Especially when you've tested all 8 and found nothing and then the next-door-neighbour calls round and says "Oh yes, the previous owners had a lot of trouble with that socket they eventually tiled over in the shower"

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Absolute nonsense.

It is not nonsense.

What is the average number of disconnections and tests (which will either need wander leads from the CU or some preparatory work there first) which your method would require on a circuit with 4-7 sockets?

 

[sta99y666]

I can see that all have their opinions on this and electricians are rightly speaking up for themselves, all I'm concerned about is do I trust him and am I being charged accordingly???

Please look at Building section of these forums and look for Conservatory base shoddy or not??

This company used their builder and now their electrician. I'm not happy with the conservatory itself either. Pictures will reveal why I'm hesitant in trusting.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

Absolute nonsense.

It is not nonsense.

I thought panto season was over for another year but alas not.

I can't see how testing of that number of sockets can take less than 3-4 hours, even if the first one you examine is faulty, I would still feel duty bound to test the whole circuit in order to sign it off. I was the last to touch it if it goes up in flames later that night, I want to know that it was not down to an omission on my part.

If there is an electrician who disagrees that the whole lot should be tested, let him speak now. As for the time it takes - we are talking about an occupied house not a test rig in college here.

As for the heads you win, tails I lose. I am afraid the grim reality is that customers have us by the short and curly these days and it is no good upsetting them. Reputation is everything, one bad report cost hundreds in advertising; to get back to where you were, if you had a happy customer.

If you are worried about the electrician ask to see his credentials, public liability insurance, exam certs, part p registration certificate and recommendations from other customers. I love to be asked for this as it gives me lots of time to say how wonderful I am and am pleased that people are vetting who they use it keeps us who are playing a straight bat in work. If he doesn't mind showing all the info then you will/should trust him, if bulks, kick off site.

Regards

Martin

 

[martinxxxxxx]

A periodic inspection report is recommended by the scheme providers, before changing a distribution board,

Is it? Which scheme provider?

Just interested

Regards

Martin

 

[sparkybird]

Very interesting post which just backs up my decision a few years ago to always insist and charge for a PIR in advance of a board change (in fact I don't give my customers the option - some other fool can take the work ta very much). I can't believe I used to just go for it - and often be there til late trying to fix a problem...

Something to be said for getting old - you get a bit more sensible!

SB

 

[ban-all-sheds]

even if the first one you examine is faulty, I would still feel duty bound to test the whole circuit in order to sign it off. I was the last to touch it if it goes up in flames later that night, I want to know that it was not down to an omission on my part.

So you're looking for a fault - and in this case it seems reasonable that it's going to be a continuity issue of some sort, either lack of or too high an R# value, and you find a loose/broken/dropped conection at a socket.

You fix that, and now the circuit as a whole tests out just fine, and is no different from all of the others, and no different to how it would have been in the first place if it had never had that fault.

So why carry on checking all of the other sockets? If because of your stated concern wouldn't you always feel you had to remove and check every single accessory on every single circuit every single time, no matter what the test results were?

 

[RF Lighting]

I'd check every socket too after finding something like that as I'm sure my boss would expect me to, and I'd hope the tradesmen I have trained would do too.

This is what happens with conscientious tradesmen out there in the real world.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Every socket on every circuit?

FCUs, flex outlets, switches, CCUs?

All light switches?

All ceiling roses/pendants/luminaires?

 

[RF Lighting]

No, just every accessory on the affected circuit.

There would be some inspection of every circuit as part of the periodic inspection / EIC process, and if other circuits show signs of requiring further investigation to ensure thier safety, then yes in the unlikely event that it becomes evident that this is required, I would absoloutly remove every single accessory to inspect it.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

So why carry on checking all of the other sockets? If because of your stated concern wouldn't you always feel you had to remove and check every single accessory on every single circuit every single time, no matter what the test results were?

My logic being that if the problem is a) poor connection - then whoever made that connection may be responsible for more iffy connections or b) socket worn out - in which case others may also be worn out.

Anyway I was just showing support for your assertion as to how long the process should take.

It is only my humble opinion. You might tell me I should then conduct a PIR but without the customer mandate I can't. Look how easily they think we invent work as it is?

Martin

 

[baldelectrician]

So why carry on checking all of the other sockets? If because of your stated concern wouldn't you always feel you had to remove and check every single accessory on every single circuit every single time, no matter what the test results were?

My logic being that if the problem is a) poor connection - then whoever made that connection may be responsible for more iffy connections or b) socket worn out - in which case others may also be worn out.
The EIC has a space to put in comments 'loose connection found on circuit 2, suggest full inspection and test to ascertain full condition of circuit(s) affected

Anyway I was just showing support for your assertion as to how long the process should take.

It is only my humble opinion. You might tell me I should then conduct a PIR but without the customer mandate I can't. Look how easily they think we invent work as it is?
Agreed
Martin

I feel that a compromise has to be reached - unless you are charging a silly low price for labour, then an extra 2 hours won't make much difference

When I change a board (did one today) I test each circuit individually and take it from there.
When I quote I do preliminary checks, but not too deep- if you find lots before the job the client just thinks you are manufacturing things and gets worried tht you are a cowboy and the job icould spiral out of control

I do boards on a fixed price (based on size and ease - or lack of). If i find faults I detail them on the EIC and inform the client.

This covers your back and puts the client in control- if it's a small thing then I will fix it (if less than 30 mins).
That way when I quote a job I know it will come in at a certain price for the client.

If longer is required then I will deal with it accordingly (ranging from not reconnecting to advising to get it fixed in future). The client will have the option of when and how the remedial works are carried out.

SB - I see your point, but would respectfully disagree.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No, just every accessory on the affected circuit.

There would be some inspection of every circuit as part of the periodic inspection / EIC process, and if other circuits show signs of requiring further investigation to ensure thier safety, then yes in the unlikely event that it becomes evident that this is required, I would absoloutly remove every single accessory to inspect it.

If inspections have shown that to be advisable then I agree.

But assuming that the samples already inspected hadn't thrown up problems, and had missed the dodgy socket or cable which the test said was there, and was subsequently found, wouldn't the logic which says you should then do an exhaustive check of the entire circuit also say that you should do the same to every circuit?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

My logic being that if the problem is a) poor connection - then whoever made that connection may be responsible for more iffy connections or b) socket worn out - in which case others may also be worn out.

I can quite see that, but...

a) that person may be responsible for more iffy connections anywhere and everywhere in the entire installation.

b) Other sockets and other accessories of any type anywhere and everywhere in the entire installation may also be worn out.

Anyway I was just showing support for your assertion as to how long the process should take.

I don't know how long it should take.