The sparky is getting on a bit and seems ok. But I did think right in saying to the wife I bet he finds a fault and it costs us more!! Then he will prob say the wiring is shot and needs replacing etc... Like ppl have said the one off price for supplying and fitting of new fuse box seems to be leading into more jobs which is now costing more and more. Il get another pic of box later once home...
Electrician to test sockets? Scam or not??
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The sparky is getting on a bit and seems ok. But I did think right in saying to the wife I bet he finds a fault and it costs us more!! Then he will prob say the wiring is shot and needs replacing etc... Like ppl have said the one off price for supplying and fitting of new fuse box seems to be leading into more jobs which is now costing more and more. Il get another pic of box later once home...
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I am between your two schools of thought as I would always do all the dead testing before removing the old fuseboard and be sure that the results made sense. I don't like to be stuck on site to 7pm because a RCD won't set.
Martin
I have to say that the guy may have made an error of judgment in not testing the install first, and has got a bit caught out. But I think it is a bit cynical to now consider him a criminal. I don't think from the sounds of things that you should take such a dim view of him. I would ask him to give you a fixed price on finding the fault. If he does subsequently say it needs rewiring then I think you would be right to be angry as he should have defiantly established the condition of the wiring before starting.
Cheer up and I am sure he only trying to do the best job he can
Martin
yea, fair comment. 3 Schools
i sometimes base my judgement about the what to test and when on what may seem to be random factors.
Talking with the customer can be most useful (sometimes utterly inane, but..)
how long have they been in the house?
have they had much work done to the house? Extension, stud walls moved etc..
how old is the house?
Is the customer a DIYer or GSIer?
Look at the age of the accessories, do they all look the same sort of age?
Although it may not sit well, and its not personal toward the OP, but i think there are as many rogue customers as there are rogue traders. People will 'av'a'go, screw it up, GSI, then say they've never touched it before. You get a feeling for these things.
Ive been caught out once or twice thinking its an easy one.
Ive saved my own ass once or twice by insisting that testing is done before where i haven't felt comfortable with the story i've been told.
If i think its going to be a can of worms, then more up-front testing.
If i think it will be a doddle, then more testing at the end.
Sometimes you're damned if you do and damned if you don't with testing, you have a choice and hindsight being what it is, someone can always criticise and ask why you didn't do it the other way
Its not always easy quoting against the unknown.
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Thank you for that, I am not suggesting that the OP here is a rogue customer. I think it is natural in some ways for us men to be a bunch of Victor Meldrews and suppose everyone is out to rip us off.
The OP's comment certainly reminded me of the VM and in a way he is the customer I dread the most. Because in a way there is no pleasing someone who views you with a suspicious eye. You concede your price to keep the peace and you look guilty, you hold your price and you look suborn. i would in this situation try to say to the customer here is my hourly rate for faultfinding, tell you what I'll cap it at 3 hours and if I find it before you can just pay for the hourly rate and invite them to join me on the hunt for the fault.
It reminds me of a locksmith I know who told me when he first started as an apprentice. A certain lock took him 3 hours to dissemble and repair, each time he did it customers would pay the 3 hours and sometimes tip him, nowadays he can at least half the time or better butd now people complain at the charge he makes.
No one likes to feel that they are being taken for a ride - but look at it from the electricians VP - he is going to be there so why should he not be paid for his time. Besides he probably feels bad that it has not gone smoothly, personally I want every job to end with the customer recommending me to their friends not going about saying this guy is maybe making up work. I guess this guy is no different so he will go along with your reasonable requests I am sure
Martin
The OP's comment certainly reminded me of the VM
and in a way he is the customer I dread the most. Because in a way there is no pleasing someone who views you with a suspicious eye. You concede your price to keep the peace and you look guilty, you hold your price and you look suborn. i would in this situation try to say to the customer here is my hourly rate for faultfinding, tell you what I'll cap it at 3 hours and if I find it before you can just pay for the hourly rate and invite them to join me on the hunt for the fault. It reminds me of a locksmith I know who told me when he first started as an apprentice. A certain lock took him 3 hours to dissemble and repair, each time he did it customers would pay the 3 hours and sometimes tip him, nowadays he can at least half the time or better butd now people complain at the charge he makes.
No one likes to feel that they are being taken for a ride - but look at it from the electricians VP - he is going to be there so why should he not be paid for his time. Besides he probably feels bad that it has not gone smoothly, personally I want every job to end with the customer recommending me to their friends not going about saying this guy is maybe making up work. I guess this guy is no different so he will go along with your reasonable requests I am sure
Martin
Hi thanks for your words, I can see your point totally.
Sparky gave two options 1st being charge per socket but could end up expensive if not found till last, or pay him a day rate.
I would pay a day rate but if he found within an hour then he would hopefully charge accordingly.
He didnt mention this so maybe it's why I'm a little VM as you put it lol.
Thanks anyway.
Sort of "Heads you win, tails he loses"?
I understand your predicament, but he has the same one, mirrored.
He has to earn a living - he has bills to pay, possibly a family to feed and house. If he schedules a day to find a fault, and finds it in an hour then he may well not be able to do any other paid work that day. Imagine if you wanted him to come and do a job and he said "Well I might be there late morning, or afternoon, or I might not turn up at all - it all depends how I get on at this other customer's house", how acceptable would you find that?
I submit that most people would say "No good - I want a definite date when you'll be here". Which is fair enough.
What's also fair enough is that he is offering to share a risk/reward charging structure with you - the price per socket. His risk is that if he finds it quickly he doesn't get paid as much, his reward is that if it takes a while he gets paid more. Your risk is that if it takes a while you pay more, your reward is that if he finds it quickly you don't pay as much.
What's also fair enough is you deciding you don't want the risk/reward and opting for the certainty of a fixed rate.
What is definitely unfair is you expecting to have the best of both worlds - the reward of a low charge if he finds it quickly and the reward of a capped price if he doesn't.
You need to decide if you think he is doing all this to rip you off - if you do then cut your losses now and get someone else in to finish the job, for if you don't you will never be satisfied.
Good post BAS, as always you gotta see it from the other guys point of view, no one likes fault finding and it can be time consuming. It's the ind of thing you cant put a price on. How many people take their cars to the garage and then just stump up a bill?
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Does it look like the cupboard socket is on a 32A?
Wonder if cable is rated accordingly?
Wonder if cable is rated accordingly?
Well put sheddy,
I think some people believe that electricians are living some kind of extravagant lifestyle based on constantly charging for a full day and only doing an hours work for it.
The truth of the matter can be somewhat different and won't attract the attention of Matt Alwright - 'look at this conscientious electrician, doing a full days fault finding for £60, how is he ever going to pay his mortgage next month' Not great telly
I would imagine that a lot of customers that complain about charges are in full time employment. They get paid to turn up, clock in, work/sit around for a set number of hours, clock out, get paid a set amount of money.
How would they feel if they turned up for work each morning of the week, then get sent home as the work dried up after just one hour?
Thats all fine and dandy until they receive their payslip which shows hours paid = 5 not 40. How would they view their boss, if at an annual appraisal/pay review, they were told 'next year, i might pay you for the full year, or i might pay you for just a month or two, depends how it goes...' Then there would be much upset, cries of unfairness, how do i feed the kids etc.
Nobody wants to have their pants pulled down, but equally, everybody needs to understand that if the job won't pay, nobody will do it, then nothing will get done. Where does that leave us? Lots of electrical death traps/fire hazards all over the country as the only choices remaining are DIYing when you don't know how to do it properly? - or every single little job costing a fortune as the only electricans left are those in employment by large firms who will charge big call outs and high day rates as they have greater overheads to meet?
Would anyone apply the same level of suspicion to a dentist?
My last check up, IIRC was about £16.50, i was in there for approx 7 minutes.
If my dentist had then told me i need a filling, is she ripping me off or helping me out? Its a question of trust
Find a spark you can trust, then trust him
I think some people believe that electricians are living some kind of extravagant lifestyle based on constantly charging for a full day and only doing an hours work for it.
The truth of the matter can be somewhat different and won't attract the attention of Matt Alwright - 'look at this conscientious electrician, doing a full days fault finding for £60, how is he ever going to pay his mortgage next month' Not great telly
I would imagine that a lot of customers that complain about charges are in full time employment. They get paid to turn up, clock in, work/sit around for a set number of hours, clock out, get paid a set amount of money.
How would they feel if they turned up for work each morning of the week, then get sent home as the work dried up after just one hour?
Thats all fine and dandy until they receive their payslip which shows hours paid = 5 not 40. How would they view their boss, if at an annual appraisal/pay review, they were told 'next year, i might pay you for the full year, or i might pay you for just a month or two, depends how it goes...' Then there would be much upset, cries of unfairness, how do i feed the kids etc.
Nobody wants to have their pants pulled down, but equally, everybody needs to understand that if the job won't pay, nobody will do it, then nothing will get done. Where does that leave us? Lots of electrical death traps/fire hazards all over the country as the only choices remaining are DIYing when you don't know how to do it properly? - or every single little job costing a fortune as the only electricans left are those in employment by large firms who will charge big call outs and high day rates as they have greater overheads to meet?
Would anyone apply the same level of suspicion to a dentist?
My last check up, IIRC was about £16.50, i was in there for approx 7 minutes.
If my dentist had then told me i need a filling, is she ripping me off or helping me out? Its a question of trust
Find a spark you can trust, then trust him
I can see BAS point but would it take a whole day to test 8 sockets? Just asking, not arguing, I don't know how long it could take.
It is also a matter of wording. Instead of charging "daily rate", the electrician could suggest to charge a "fixed price", which doesn't raise questions like why pay for a full day if it took an hour.
It is also a matter of wording. Instead of charging "daily rate", the electrician could suggest to charge a "fixed price", which doesn't raise questions like why pay for a full day if it took an hour.
Mikhail is just airing a common occurrence in the daily business of tradesmen. Thanks to the likes of Matt Allwright and his theatricals, Joe Public could be forgiven the belief that every tradesman is out to rip you off, which is miles away from the truth.
The issue is confounded, however, by the very large proportion of trades-people from all disciplines who are merely adequate, verging on incompetent and electricians are particularly guilty of this. While most are conscientious regarding the manual aspects of their job, relatively few are genuinely knowledgeable and up to date about the technical side. And like many tradesmen, customer-facing skills are sometimes wanting.
So, a combination of wary clients coupled with well-intentioned but differentially skilled sparks regularly leads to the sorts of suspicions raised here.
No. I don't have a solution. (At least not a socially acceptable one! )
The issue is confounded, however, by the very large proportion of trades-people from all disciplines who are merely adequate, verging on incompetent and electricians are particularly guilty of this. While most are conscientious regarding the manual aspects of their job, relatively few are genuinely knowledgeable and up to date about the technical side. And like many tradesmen, customer-facing skills are sometimes wanting.
So, a combination of wary clients coupled with well-intentioned but differentially skilled sparks regularly leads to the sorts of suspicions raised here.
No. I don't have a solution. (At least not a socially acceptable one!
)As a matter of fact - yes
Especially after my partner had an infection from the dentist's badly strerilised tools.
I agree that the best way is to find somebody who you can trust, be it a dentist or a sparky. But the trust and respect don't come for granted, they have to be deserved. In the case of OP, the electrician was not recommended by a friend, he works with the conservatory installer. OP rightly has no idea whether he can trust him or not, hence the current topic.
H
holmslaw
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