electrician won't issue electrical installation cert -help?!

[becky1809taylor]

I was wondering if I could get some opinions...sorry for the essay, I'll try to be as brief as possible

We had a new fuse box and an outside light installed in March last year by a registered electrician. As I understand it, this is notifiable work. He did not give us a certificate to cover this work, and now that we are selling our house, it has come to light that we need one.

I asked the electrician to give us a copy now, as he should have at the time, but his response was that he does not give the certificates unless a customer requests one, and now that it's quite some months later, he can't issue one unless he first does an inspection (in case any additional work has been done since), and an inspection would be chargeable.

Now, I know this is all kinds of wrong, but he won't budge, at least to me. I have asked the solicitor dealing with the sale of our house to contact him, and Buildings Control advised me to report him to the regulatory body, which I have done.

My problem is that I don't know what to do if we can't make him change his mind. We've been stupid enough to lose the invoice, so I have to face the possibility that we may not be able to make him issue a cert. I'm told no other electrician can issue the cert for work done by someone else. When I asked Buildings Control if we could maybe put in an application now, and have another electrician certify it on their behalf, they said I was going about it the wrong way and I should just get the original electrician to certify it. But the problem is time - we're already in the process of selling the house and have a whole chain hanging on this.

Do I have any other options? Would a Periodic Inspection do the job? Someone mentioned indemnity insurance, but I really want to avoid going down that route....

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

 

[Taylortwocities]

As you have found out, he should have provided you with a cert and the work must have been notified to the local authority.

Not sure which regulatory body you meant but (if you havent done this) you should take it up with whatever organisation he is registered with that allows him to self certify work. That will be NICEIC, NAPIT, ELECSA, ECA or one or two others.

As time is the issue you could get a competent electrician to do a PIR. Check with yr solicitor that this will be sufficient to get the chain moving. . Go to www.competentperson.co.uk and type in your post code for someone near you. Electricians who do PIRs are advised to have Professional indeminity insurance. That covers them if they issue a report that is wrong and you sue them, same as surveyors, etc.

Where abouts in berkshire are you?

BTW, who is the spark who did the work registered with?

 

[becky1809taylor]

He's registered with the NICEIC. I have registered a complaint with them, but understand that normally they won't deal with a complaint until we've put our complaint in writing to the electrician in question (have just done this), and waited a while for him to respond. I understand that this is reasonable, but don't have that much time, and he made his position pretty clear on the phone.

We're in Maidenhead.

I will take your advice about the PI - hopefully that'll be enough for the solicitor, I was slightly worried we will also have to go through the hassle of putting in a regularisation application to Building Control???

This is a nightmare - will be getting certificates for everything I possibly can in the next house. Naively, I suppose, I assumed that a registered electrician would have supplied all necessary documentation, but it's my fault for not checking what was needed (and for not keeping the invoice).

Thanks for your advice!

 

[Softus]

I understand that this is reasonable, but don't have that much time, and he made his position pretty clear on the phone.

Well, you could make your position equally clear. For example, for the local weekly rag where he advertises, or even if he doesn't, send him a proof copy of the 'advert' that you're about to place, along the lines of "<his name> refuses to certify his work as being safe".

See if that will wake him up.

 

[becky1809taylor]

I like that idea, will keep that as an option

I'm hoping that I'm panicking unnecessarily, and that the letter I've sent him telling him to expect my solicitor to be in touch, and that I've been advised to make a complaint to the NICEIC, will convince him that the path of least resistance would be to just give us the certificate (by coming out and testing the installation again, if necessary).

Otherwise, hopefully the buyer's solicitor will accept a PI - it's what would be needed for regularisation anyway, as I understand it.

 

[Adam_151]

Otherwise, hopefully the buyer's solicitor will accept a PI - it's what would be needed for regularisation anyway, as I understand it.

Thats what the recommended way of acheieving regularisation is anyway, I'm told, in the guidence issued to LABC departments, ultimately it depends on if the LABC is willing to accept a PIR as proof of compliance with P1, there are other parts which are relevant, eg. L1, so most likely an onsite glance will be needed as well (but this should all be in the regulsation fee)

 

[becky1809taylor]

Thanks for confirming that Adam. Don't suppose you know a ballpark figure for how much the regularisation fee would be, do you?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Check with your council - it varies, but it's usually more than a proper notification would cost (presumably to deter people from taking a chance on not getting found out?).

How did you pay the electrician? If it wasn't cash then there will be a record of it, so even of you've lost the invoice you'll have proof that he must have done some work for you...

 

[becky1809taylor]

We didn't pay cash, so I have proof he did some work, as you say, but if he's clever enough he could just say we paid 250 quid (or whatever) for a few extra sockets, and we'd never be able to prove otherwise...unfortunately, before I realised we needed the certificate, I made the mistake of requesting a copy of the invoice, so he knows we don't have one.

Someone else suggested getting the fuse board replaced again, which would require a whole new certificate for the whole circuit, getting round the issue...obviously seems like a crazy option, but if we end up having to pay the regularisation fee, then the cost of the PIR, it may actually work out cheaper. Is this viable?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

A PIR will do as good a job of proving that the work is safe as anything else. A regularisation certificate won't add any more levels of comfort, and is really pretty pointless. It would be based solely on the PIR results anyway.

Being in a chain is very fraught, but it may be that your only sensible option is to tell your buyer that he'll get a PIR, and nothing else. Is he in a chain as well? If so, he's got as much stress invested in all this as you have, and isn't going to walk away.

For sure he may try to knock the price down (I would ), but you just have to take a deep breath and say no, and wait for him to blink first.

Remember - you have not contravened the Building Regulations, the electrician has.

 

[Softus]

Remember - you have not contravened the Building Regulations, the electrician has.

Quite so - it's clearly an offence:-

[code:1](2) Where this regulation applies, the local authority is authorised to accept, as evidence that the requirements of regulations 4 and 7 have been satisfied, a certificate to that effect by the person carrying out the building work.

(3) Where this regulation applies, the person carrying out the work shall, not more than 30 days after the completion of the work -

(a) give to the occupier a copy of the certificate referred to in
paragraph (2); and

(b) give to the local authority -

(i) notice to that effect, or

(ii) the certificate referred to in paragraph (2).[/code:1]

 

[THRIPSTER]

Might be worth checking to see if he is a genuine NICEIC contratcor....................

 

[danlightbulb]

As you stated, an indemnity policy is a viable option, and one which the solicitor can sort out for you. I believe the cost is reasonable at around £150. This may therefore work out to be the cheapest option.

An indemnity policy is simply insurance for the new owners against prosecution by building control for lack of certification.

 

[Dippy]

now that we are selling our house, it has come to light that we need one.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is NOT part of HIPS is it?

I moved recently and my surveyor put the usual caveat in his report that since he couldn't inspect the electrics and there was no PIR, he had to give the "requires attention" rating. As a buyer I had to decide if I would go ahead with the purchase or not. I'm sure if I had asked the vendor to get a PIR she would have pulled out of the sale.

If you have not already done so, can you test the water by simply telling the solicitor that you can't get the cert, and the buyer will have to take the house as-is? You never know, they might.

 

[Adam_151]

I beleive, on the form that you get that asks who owns the boundry fences, details of any wayleve arrangements, whether or not you have had any disputes with the neighbours, and if the ex is burried in the back garden, theres a question about whether building regs approval has been gained for any notifiable works...if you lie on this, then you leave yourself open to civil action (and remember, as its civil not criminal matter then its decided on a balence of probabilities, not "beyond reasonable doubt")

Basically, the rule is not to lie about something, in the case of BR, if notification hasn't been done then a indemnity policy might be needed incase it causes any problems