Energy saving

[jeds]

Have a look at this health and wealth statistical graph. Click play to watch it run but a more interesting thing is hold the date curser and move it backwards and forwards between about 1970 and 2008. (which is when the graph was made) China is red - Blue is India.

http://tinyurl.com/amcczu3

 

[tony1851]

So lets all turn the clock back and go back to growing our own food
and making our own clothes and things. Why not set an example and ditch your computer for a start?
Since the Arts-and-Crafts movement of the mid-19th century, people in this country have looked back to some imagined golden pre-industrial age. That's not civilization - it's pretentious and decadent.

Lol, you missed the point he's making by a mile.

I haven't missed the point. Would you advocate going back to horse ploughing, then?

 

[AronSearle]

Yes, because complaining lot's of people drive to work in a car on their own (when it can carry 4-5) is the same as saying we should go back to grubbing in fields

 

[luisdesign]

Would you advocate going back to horse ploughing, then?

No, I'd advocate the use of energy efficient machinery, fuels and processes! Which is exactly the point I was making in the begining! being energy efficient does not mean that we need to devolve our technologuies, it means we EVOLVE them. If our technology, and our buildings, become more efficient in their energy use - and the energy created is done so, and delivered in a sustainable and efficient manner then there is absolutely no reason why we cannot enjoy all the luxuries we currently do - if not more!

 

[Norcon]

because complaining lot's of people drive to work in a car on their own (when it can carry 4-5) is the same as saying we should go back to grubbing in fields

No its not.
Its about being energy efficient and as has been pointed out you don't need to go back to "grubbing" in the fields to do that.

When the oil runs out what will you people with your lily white clean hands do when no food is delivered to the supermarkets?
You have two options. Starve or get yer hands dirty grubbing in the fields. Though something tells me you'd rather starve.


The Amish incidently still plough with horses. An eight horse hitch up to a two score plough. Very impressive.
Though most of the world population would starve if it was dependant on them.

 

[Norcon]

Do we really, REALLY know for sure that man's activities contribute to climate change?

Yes. Apart from a few nutters who refuse to accept it, or ignorant people who have not looked at the evidence.

There is not a serious climatologist or research institution in the world among the deniers.

Spot on.

 

[wobs]

Would you advocate going back to horse ploughing, then?

No, I'd advocate the use of energy efficient machinery, fuels and processes! Which is exactly the point I was making in the begining! being energy efficient does not mean that we need to devolve our technologuies, it means we EVOLVE them. If our technology, and our buildings, become more efficient in their energy use - and the energy created is done so, and delivered in a sustainable and efficient manner then there is absolutely no reason why we cannot enjoy all the luxuries we currently do - if not more!

As I mentioned on page 2, Jevons Paradox tends to result in an increase of energy use when you increase efficiency, not a reduction, when energy efficiency improvements are realised.

Changing how we convert the energy can have an impact of course. And the move away from coal has to be top priority, owing to the amount of CO2 produced per unit of energy produced.

 

[tony1851]

Do we really, REALLY know for sure that man's activities contribute to climate change?

Yes. Apart from a few nutters who refuse to accept it, or ignorant people who have not looked at the evidence.

There is not a serious climatologist or research institution in the world among the deniers.

Spot on.

Really?
Being human, and being paid by governments and green groups, 'scientists' can be given a theory, and then hunt for data to support it, while ignoring data which disproves it.
It's about time people stopped behaving like sheep and became more sceptical.

 

[tony1851]

When the oil runs out

More doomsday stuff. The oil won't run out.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

You're conflating two seperate issues. We were on about Africa and other third world regions with high birth rates.

Here in the UK, we have had a low birth rate and high life expectancy for decades.

The third world (and developing world) generally have a lot of catching up to do with regard birth rates, and life expectancy, and we have no moral reason not to allow them to acheive that. Infact there is much to gain to allow them to develop, and gain the benefits of an industrialised world. There are risks as well of course, but if we make every effort to clean up our act, the lessons can be learned elsewhere.

For example, China may be using obscene amounts of coal, but they are also building more renewables than anyone else. They and us need to be building more nuclear power plants. And never forget that it is us that is feeding that industry (the West), with us buying their goods en masse.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21432226

The biggest container ships will be saling from Asia to Europe.

We need to develop clean technology. Not just for us to use, but for the world. Its a global market, and a global issue of emissions.

I agree. I'm not disputing anything you've said.

 

[Norcon]

Do we really, REALLY know for sure that man's activities contribute to climate change?

Yes. Apart from a few nutters who refuse to accept it, or ignorant people who have not looked at the evidence.

There is not a serious climatologist or research institution in the world among the deniers.

Spot on.

Really?
Being human, and being paid by governments and green groups, 'scientists' can be given a theory, and then hunt for data to support it, while ignoring data which disproves it.
It's about time people stopped behaving like sheep and became more sceptical.

I am sceptical. Sceptical about your side of the story.

 

[tony1851]

Tell yer what. When you go for your holidays, don't jet off to Florida or Thailand, Egypt or Cyprus. Take a more environmentally responsible holiday.
Bring the wife and kids up north for a fortnight in Blackpool.
Or would that be a little TOO environmentally responsible! for your taste?!

 

[RonnyRaygun]

The building/building regs/flooring/roofing forums have been very quiet recently...

We need someone to post some questions in those forums so that Tony can get back to doing what he does best...arguing with Woody

 

[JBR]

More doomsday stuff. The oil won't run out.

That's very reassuring. Is oil being constantly renewed whilst we burn it? How?

 

[luisdesign]

Tell yer what. When you go for your holidays, don't jet off to Florida or Thailand, Egypt or Cyprus. Take a more environmentally responsible holiday.
Bring the wife and kids up north for a fortnight in Blackpool.
Or would that be a little TOO environmentally responsible! for your taste?!

mind you, it's probably just as hazardous to your health...

More doomsday stuff. The oil won't run out.

Okay, I'm pretty certain now, that you're just trying to wind people up now! lol.