Europeans thank Tory Britain

[noseall]

Italy and france.
Given the chance.

Dunner be daft Rog. With the UK out of the way they will all stay put.

 

[wobs]

Wrong.
It was a trading agreement.
Countries need little more than that to prevent war.
Ceding power to a cartel is not a recipe for peace. Just look at the state of Europe now with more and more countries wanting out.
The Europhile remoaners have got it wrong.

You are aware that the EU won the Nobel Peace prize in 2012 aren't you?

 

[Doggit]

ou are aware that the EU won the Nobel Peace prize in 2012 aren't you

Which just goes to show how ridiculuous it's becoming. They've given a Nobel prize to an entity, thats run by people, so why not give it to the people themselves. They obviously could find anyone better to give it to.

 

[JohnD]

Wrong.
It was a trading agreement.
Countries need little more than that to prevent war.

I don't know why you are spouting that nonsense, which is so obviously false and so easily disproved.

Are you not aware of the objectives of the men who founded the European movement?

Obviously you have not studied its history.
https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/history_en

Have you heard of a fellow called Winston Churchill?

 

[JohnD]

"Apart from the ideas of federation, confederation, or customs union, the original development of the European Union was based on a supranational foundation that would "make war unthinkable and materially impossible"[1][2] and reinforce democracy amongst its members[3] as laid out by Robert Schuman and other leaders in the Schuman Declaration (1950) and the Europe Declaration (1951). This principle was at the heart of the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) (1951), the Treaty of Paris (1951), and later the Treaty of Rome (1958) which established the European Economic Community (EEC) and the European Atomic Energy Community (EAEC). Both the ECSC and EEC were later incorporated into the European Union while the EAEC maintains a distinct legal identity despite sharing members and institutions."

ref [1] http://www.schuman.info/9May1950.htm

ref [2] http://schuman.info/Strasbourg549.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe_Declaration


I suppose it's easy for a sour old man who has not experienced the horrors of war to dismiss the life's work of those who have, and strive to prevent a recurrence. Perhaps Roger is one such.

 

[Roger928]

I don't know why you are spouting that nonsense, which is so obviously false and so easily disproved.

Are you not aware of the objectives of the men who founded the European movement?

Obviously you have not studied its history.
https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/history_en

Have you heard of a fellow called Winston Churchill?

View attachment 115690

View attachment 115691



View attachment 115689

Garbage.
It was set up to the people as a trading agreement.
Political ideals never came into it.

 

[Roger928]

"Apart from the ideas of federation, confederation, or customs union, the original development of the European Union was based on a supranational foundation that would "make war unthinkable and materially impossible"[1][2] and reinforce democracy amongst its members[3] as laid out by Robert Schuman and other leaders in the Schuman Declaration (1950) and the Europe Declaration (1951). This principle was at the heart of the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC) (1951), the Treaty of Paris (1951), and later the Treaty of Rome (1958) which established the European Economic Community (EEC) and the European Atomic Energy Community (EAEC). Both the ECSC and EEC were later incorporated into the European Union while the EAEC maintains a distinct legal identity despite sharing members and institutions."

ref [1] http://www.schuman.info/9May1950.htm

ref [2] http://schuman.info/Strasbourg549.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe_Declaration


I suppose it's easy for a sour old man who has not experienced the horrors of war to dismiss the life's work of those who have, and strive to prevent a recurrence. Perhaps Roger is one such.

The sour old retired man who spends his days on here lives in perth.
I suppose you can always vote sturgeon now and re join yer beloved eu.
If they'll have you.

 

[JohnD]

It was set up to the people as a trading agreement.

That is quite simply not true.

Are you Donald Trump?

 

[Roger928]

That is quite simply not true.

Are you Donald Trump?

How is it not true? It wasn't set up as a united states of Europe as you are peddling. Political idealism doesn't come into it.
Because its now heading towards that very goal is one of the reasons we have voted to get out.
What planet are you on?

 

[JohnD]

And here's sour old Roger spouting lies again

Wrong.
It was a trading agreement.
Countries need little more than that to prevent war.

So easily disproved.

 

[Roger928]

And here's sour old Roger spouting lies again



So easily disproved.

Your links have proved nothing.
Political idealistic speeches and dreams don't come into it. And those foolish dreams have been quite rightly shattered now.
Back to the real world.

OBJECTIVES
After the failure of the EDC, the economy, which was less subject to national resistance than other areas, became the focus of consensus in the field of supranational cooperation. The establishment of the EEC and the creation of the Common Market had two objectives. The first was to transform the conditions of trade and manufacture on the territory of the Community.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriservy0023

 

[JohnD]

As I said before:

Wrong.

The men who founded the European Movement had just lived through the worst war the world has ever seen. The older ones had also lived through the second-worst war the world has ever seen.

Nothing was more important to them than preventing a recurrence.

It has worked.

The old system of competitive and combative nation states and shifting alliances didn't.

View media item 3017

 

[Gerrydelasel]

1. "Economic bargains which are likely to be kept are preferable to political agreements which are likely to be broken.
2. If soldiers are not to cross international boundaries on missions of war, goods must cross them on missions of peace.
3. Unless shackles can be dropped from trade, bombs will inevitably drop from the sky."
   Economic Union and Durable Peace, 1943

Free trade is the solution to war, and all it requires is for country leaders to say 'yes' to free trade, No further supranational collusion is necessary. Free trade is not a clubhouse, it is an open field. The EU has fenced it off and now demands a fee to pay the man who guards the fence.

 

[JohnD]

that must explain why, prior to the European Movement, Europe endured a thousand years of peace, whereas, since joining together in deliberate co-operation, there have been wars between the countries every generation.


ooops, sorry, got that the wrong way round.

 

[wobs]

Why did the EU win the Nobel peace prize? Lets find out by asking the Nobel people:

After the decimation of the Second World War, reconciliation between Germany and France was an important step towards fostering peace in Europe. The two countries - which by then had fought three wars within the space of 70 years - built the European Coal and Steel Community together with four other countries in 1952. This organization became the foundation for an ever-broader cooperation within what has been known since 1993 as the European Union (EU).

In this time of economic and social unrest, the Norwegian Nobel Committee wished to reward the EU's successful struggle for peace, reconciliation and for democracy and human rights. When the community expanded to include additional countries during the 1970s and 1980s, democracy was a prerequisite for membership. After the fall of European communist regimes around 1990, the union was able to expand to include several countries in Central and Eastern Europe, where democracy had been strengthened and conflict checked. The Nobel Committee also believes that the question of EU membership is bolstering the reconciliation process after the wars in the Balkan States, and that the desire for EU membership has also promoted democracy and human rights in Turkey.

https://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/2012/eu-facts.html
So the EU has promoted democracy & peace throughout Europe.