EV are they worth it?
- Thread starter ericmark
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I would bet you very good money, not only that someone would try, but that there would also be a lawyer willing to press their claim for compo
Of course they will! But as you've seen in Post# 1073, they can trip over petrol hoses too. And I daresay there will be some ambulance-chasing scumbag lawyers, who would try and make a quick buck on such an incident too. Yet I don't hear anyone telling me that petrol pumps will never take off because someone, somewhere, will trip over one?
Why would it strike you as "odd", that London gets the lion's share of investment?
It's par for the course
London has more kerbside EV chargers, because it has more EVs. The authorities can't do right for doing wrong, here. If they don't install them, they get slated for not providing the infrastructure. If they do install them, they get slated for wasting taxpayers' money when there's no demand...
Maybe, maybe not. However, the fact remains, they're doing it and we're not. We seem to try ever so hard to get left behind, these days...
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You're getting desperate over these trip hazards, @Avocet .
Show me a petrol pump hose, slung across a pavement and left unattended for even an hour, and I'd begin to give your point some credence.
Even more so, if you showed me multiple hoses similarly laying there.
I'm alright though, as I have a driveway.
There are valid arguments, and hills upon which to die.
Defending charge leads across pavements is one such hill, IMHO.
Department for Business and Trade published its Battery Strategy, which sets out how it hopes to develop an integrated industry from manufacturing to recycling in the UK, along the lines of those in China and Germany. Recyclus Group’s lithium-ion battery recycling plant in Wolverhampton* was, however, the only one in the UK, the Government admitted, with most EV batteries having to be dismantled and shipped to Europe. New EU regulations will force UK manufacturers to seek more recycled content because in August it decided to incentivise battery recycling by establishing mandatory minimum levels of recycled content for batteries. These must contain at least 16% cobalt, 6% lithium and 6% nickel that comes from recycling, with these percentages rising to 26%, 12% and 15% respectively by 2036.
MRW.co.uk
*The firm’s Wolverhampton plant will be the first of six battery recycling facilities it plans to launch within the next five years. It also plans to sell its processing systems to car makers and gigafactories. Meanwhile, thanks to a £1.9 million fund awarded by Innovate UK, Recyclus is also working with the University of Birmingham on the development of a mobile version of its recycling plant that could be transported on the back of a truck to customers including EV garages. Depending on the battery’s chemistry and its state of charge, Recyclus charges customers up to £8.40 per kilo to receive and recycle their lithium-ion batteries. On the open market the black mass that is extracted fetches £5000-£6000 per kilo.
CatMag.co.uk
There are a very limited number of EV battery recycling facilities worldwide, with only two existing in Europe. As of December 2023, China was by far the global leader in terms of battery recycling capacity, with more than 500,000 metric tons. The U.S. and Europe trailed behind with around 200,000 metric tons of capacity each.
Statista.com
MRW.co.uk
*The firm’s Wolverhampton plant will be the first of six battery recycling facilities it plans to launch within the next five years. It also plans to sell its processing systems to car makers and gigafactories. Meanwhile, thanks to a £1.9 million fund awarded by Innovate UK, Recyclus is also working with the University of Birmingham on the development of a mobile version of its recycling plant that could be transported on the back of a truck to customers including EV garages. Depending on the battery’s chemistry and its state of charge, Recyclus charges customers up to £8.40 per kilo to receive and recycle their lithium-ion batteries. On the open market the black mass that is extracted fetches £5000-£6000 per kilo.
CatMag.co.uk
There are a very limited number of EV battery recycling facilities worldwide, with only two existing in Europe. As of December 2023, China was by far the global leader in terms of battery recycling capacity, with more than 500,000 metric tons. The U.S. and Europe trailed behind with around 200,000 metric tons of capacity each.
Statista.com
If anything, I'm actually incredibly sanguine about these trip hazards. It's everyone else who seems to be getting their knickers in a twist over them.
Did the bloke trip over the petrol pump hose, or did he not? Do you think someone bent on trying to get a bit of "compo" would only pursue a claim if involved an EV charging lead? Nobody is advocating charging leads across a pavement.
As do most UK homes.
Except I'm NOT defending charging leads across pavements!!!! I'm talking about kerbside chargers! Look at the photos in Post#1058. None of those leads cross a pavement. There is always a clear thoroughfare for prams, pedestrians, wheelchairs, etc.
If anything, I'm actually incredibly sanguine about these trip hazards. It's everyone else who seems to be getting their knickers in a twist over them.
Did the bloke trip over the petrol pump hose, or did he not? Do you think someone bent on trying to get a bit of "compo" would only pursue a claim if involved an EV charging lead? Nobody is advocating charging leads across a pavement.
As do most UK homes.
Except I'm NOT defending charging leads across pavements!!!! I'm talking about kerbside chargers! Look at the photos in Post#1058. None of those leads cross a pavement. There is always a clear thoroughfare for prams, pedestrians, wheelchairs, etc.
Stop getting your knickers in a twist.
I'm for EV.
I just am very dismayed by the UK's habitual tardiness in creating and maintaining decent infrastructure.
(and your petrol pump point is so invalid as to be laughable: fleeting, attended, in a very specialised setting, been around for decades.
And, the "been around for decades" is the clincher, in many ways. The old "if they tried to do it that way from now, they'd ban it!" holds true.
My money would be that, if they invented the filling station today, we'd have hoses suspended from above: no trip hazard
)And this is hugely important to me. If we don't recycle battery materials, one of the key environmental advantages of EVs over ICEs, ends up being lost. If anything, I'm a little disappointed that the EU targets are as low as they are, but I guess we have to start somewhere. Once again, China is wiping the floor with us and all the old reactionaries will say is: "yeah, but look at all their coal power stations". What we should be looking at, is their percentage of renewable energy compared to ours, and how fast it's changing, and we ought to be afraid...
As for what Britain decides to do, (having "taken back control"), is a different matter. It's environmental record since doing so, has been abysmal. However, if our manufacturers want to sell into their biggest export market, they''re going to have to do it anyway, so there's a glimmer of hope, at least...
Recycling in the UK is pitiful and in the case of plastic waste needs to improve drastically if we're to make a difference - a proposed facility near Oxford has protestors swarming all over it but if not there - where? In 2021, the recycling rate of plastic packaging waste in the UK stood at around 44 percent, after more or less stagnating in the past five years.
Only one plant for recycling EV batteries is not going to cut the moutard, either, so more green space will need to be used in order to deal with the increasing volume generated by more vehicles. And i suppose someone will want a new house sometime soon. No wonder the UK can't cope with any more Channel migrants...we're going to run out of room, soon.
Only one plant for recycling EV batteries is not going to cut the moutard, either, so more green space will need to be used in order to deal with the increasing volume generated by more vehicles. And i suppose someone will want a new house sometime soon. No wonder the UK can't cope with any more Channel migrants...we're going to run out of room, soon.
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Like I said... I'm not the one panicking over largely imaginary trip hazards...
So am I, but I think some of the blame for that, has to lie at the feet of those complain vociferously about petty and hugely exaggerated perceived hazards in doing so, don't you think?
And that's the difference between us. The whole reason you see my petrol pump example as "laughable", is precisely because they've been around for decades and you've had a chance to get used to it. By the time kerbside EV charging has "been around for decades" you'll look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.
My money would be that, if they invented the filling station today, we'd have hoses suspended from above: no trip hazard
Oh absolutely! If EVs were the established norm and ICEs had just been invented, I'd be willing to bet that the exact same people on here who are so passionately against every EV development, would be up in arms about the dangers of building a network of sites - many in built-up and residential areas, sitting on thousands of gallons of highly flammable liquid, never mind the potential trip hazards! (...whilst simultaneously complaining about the slow roll-out of the necessary infrastructure)...
England is very crowded, but not much worse than the Netherlands or Malta. The UK as a whole, isn't that bad. There's no reason why recycling plants should take up any more space than other industrial sites that we no longer use (like gasworks, for example, or cotton mills or IC engine factories).
Belguim and Luxembourg are the EU countries with recycling capability for EV batteries but Europe has the ability to look further afield for increasing capacity while the UK chooses to go it alone since Bre*it. It's more expensive to ship our waste abroad and damaging for our geen-belt land to build more. Old gasworks maybe one answer but wasn't the lack of gas storage facilities an issue? There really needs to be a clearer plan for what the f. this country is meant to be doing.
So am I, but I think some of the blame for that, has to lie at the feet of those complain vociferously about petty and hugely exaggerated perceived hazards in doing so, don't you think?
No, I don't.
It's political ideology.
And (enough of) the population wanting stuff, but baulking at paying for it.
You've missed the point.
It's not about that "we've got used to petrol pumps".
It's that petrol pumps were already well-established before the UK evolved to its current risk-averse position.
If EVs had been introduced 50 years ago, and were charged with leads strung all about, all would be fine.
Because the litigious nature of the in which we now reside didn't exist back then.
You can't just go "yes, I know you might trip / get electrocuted, but get used to it!"; that's a total non-starter.
And yet, on this very thread, there is fierce opposition to kerbside chargers, and nobody has mentioned paying for them...
Awwww come on! Hot coffee has been around for hundreds of years, but it doesn't stop today's "compo hunters" trying to sue McDonalds when they burn themselves on a cup of it! In fact, I'd go further and say that MOST of the things people will try to claim compensation for these days, are hazards that have been around for much longer than the "litigious nature in which we now reside".
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