Even Keir doesn’t want 'open borders' to help the NHS.

[Justin Passing]

BBC article : https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-63473022
Between July 2021 and June 2022, the UK received 30,703 visa applications from Albanian citizens and granted 20,289 of them, according to Home Office figures- only 361 of them were work visas.

They can apply for tourist visas. Addresses of a few in the uk as hosts would do for that.

So what drives them to boats?

Why not get a visa, get a ticket for a ferry then say they're an asylum seeker?
The illegal boats cost far more, we're told. Are other Crims paying to traffic destitute people into drug gangs, or what?

 

[ellal]

So its not possible for an Albanian skilled worker to apply for a visa to work in the UK? Strange that the home office say it cost just 199 Euros.

Euros?

Why not pounds?

But you haven't taken into account the 'extras' which push that well into four figures just to apply!

Of course you would be willing to do a 'skilled' job picking crops which the brexiteer boss of Next has called for?

 

[Pat ex]

Did he say how he was going to do it?

You can't define the methods until you own the objectives.
E.g. Labour tell us what their objectives are, Tories and all the others do the same, and we vote accordingly.
Only the 'government' get to decide on the "how".

I suspect most voters don't care about the "how", it's the goal that wins their vote.

 

[Pat ex]

The thread is about the Labour leaders idea of the UK going back to the old ways of training our own NHS professionals instead of relying on cheap imported labour.

I didn't see that as the main point of Sir Keir's comment.
He said that relying om migrant labour was no solution to a staffing crisis in the NHS. The ideal solution is to train sufficient indigenous staff. I'm not convinced that was ever the 'old' way.

The National Health Service (NHS) has used migrant workers from its inception. As early as 1957, the Willink Committee on medical manpower found that 12% of doctors in a random sample taken from the Medical Directories of 1953 and 1955 were mainly overseas-trained.

Writing migrants back into NHS history: addressing a ‘collective amnesia’ and its policy implications

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

He also recognised that immigration was necessary.

 

[Pat ex]

Being a member would make it hard to prioritise training British citizens, as you are not allowed to have grants available for your own citizens that aren't available to other EU citizens.

Students within the EU are still required to support themselves and have the appropriate medical insurance in the foreign country of their choice.
Also after the first 3 months the host country can require you to register, and you cannot stay at the end of your training if you cannot support yourself.

 

[Pat ex]

You are aware that EU law requires all EU citizens to be treated the same.

You cannot simply move to another EU country, even if you are an EU citizen. You must be able to support yourself, and have the necessary medical insurance.

 

[ellal]

He also recognised that immigration was necessary.

If the tory government has set the cap for medical training places to be far less than that required, surely even the stupidest of brexiteers should be slapping their collective forehead and thinking 'no sh*t sherlock'!

Nope, it will probably take about 50 years for it to sink in that the NHS relied on EU staff though they voted to get rid of them...

And of course after they have been forced to sign up for US style health insurance, which they can't afford!

But then they either don't care or they'll be 1.8288 metres under by then!

 

[Pat ex]

Only in respect that even Keir Starmer is finally coming round to 'getting it'. One day, even you might.

He's recognising the problems caused by Brexit and suggesting what's necessary to deal with them.
I don't hear any Tories doing that.

 

[ellal]

You cannot simply move to another EU country, even if you are an EU citizen. You must be able to support yourself, and have the necessary medical insurance.

Absolute b*llshit...

You have the same rights as an EU citizen in any EU country as if in your own to move freely within...

If after 3 months then without entitlement any EU country has the right to remove a person back to their country of origin...

Funnily enough that also applied to the UK when it was a member of the EU...

Stop spouting brexiteer lies!

 

[Pat ex]

Greedy rich business owners didn't have to train people when there is an endless supply or labour. NHS just plain lazy.

Who are these greedy rich owners of the NHS?

 

[JohnD]

Who are these greedy rich owners of the NHS?

He means the Conservative government.

 

[Pat ex]

Absolute b*llshit...

You have the same rights as an EU citizen in any EU country as if in your own to move freely within...

If after 3 months then without entitlement any EU country has the right to remove a person back to their country of origin...

Funnily enough that also applied to the UK when it was a member of the EU...

Stop spouting brexiteer lies!

Calm down and check your facts.

You can stay in another EU country for up to 3 months without registering there but you may need to report your presence. The only requirement is to hold a valid national identity card or passport. If you want to stay longer than 3 months, you may need to register your residence.

have sufficient income, from any source, to live without needing income support
have comprehensive health insurance cover there.

Residence rights when living abroad in the EU - Your Europe

Rights and requirements for lawful residence of EU nationals in another EU country: workers, students, pensioners, jobseekers etc.

europa.eu

 

[ellal]

Calm down and check your facts.

FFS why did I state the 3 month rule...

But at least your link pointed out the b*llshit you spouted!

 

[ellal]

What would be interesting to hear is whether anyone who voted brexit enjoyed their freedom of movement in the EU prior to their decision...

Whether that be for employment/study/living...

And why did they decide to deny those rights to the generations to come?

 

[Pat ex]

those aren’t included in the figures.

at the top of the list is Cyprus.


most European countries, including France, Germany etc are way ahead of UK.


I’m not sure what that means, is that a result of a poll?

asylum seekers aren’t illegal immigrants

When you think about it, as a choice of destinations for asylum seekers, the choices are severely limited depending on your starting point.
E.g. Mid-East refugees have to look to Europe. South American refugees have to look to North America. South Asians have to look to other southern Asian countries or Australia.
If you're in South Asia or South America, then Europe is totally out of the picture, as a choice of destinations.

Although UK does have a history of making a big thing, (bigging themselves up in the world) by pretending to show compassion to refugees in some examples, e.g. Vietnamese in the 70's, Ugandans in the 70's, Iranians in the 80's, Bosnians in the 90's, HonkCongers in the 2021's, Ukrainians in the 2022's, etc.