F&E Tank Deposits - is this typical?

[Catmandoo2]

I've tried to photograph the inside of my F&E Tank, taken after Power-Flushing carried out by my installation company (sorry the photo is a bit small, but it's my first attempt and I don't know how to upload a larger version in here):-

//media.diynot.com/188000_187987_47650_18452479_thumb.jpg

Untitled

• Catmandoo2
• 28 Jun 2012
• 1

The system has been operating for 6-years and supposedly protected by Fernox F1 Inhibitor.

Are these deposits typical in such systems?

Should the tank have been cleaned out as part of the Power-flushing process?

The main thread for the problems I've been having is here:-
//www.diynot.com/forums/plumbing/glow-worm-24hxi-cycling-and-banging-help-please.325469/

 

[mickyg]

Should the tank have been cleaned out as part of the Power-flushing process?

There's no guidelines on how to carry out a powerflush, but yes it makes sense and is obviously good practice to remove and clean the header tank.
It usually indicates the difference between a company who just wants to sell a powerflush and a company who wants to give you a clean system. Same goes for those who flush cold or use rubbish cheap chemicals.

 

[Armo74]

As said above, i would always clean the f/e tank doesn't make sense not to.

 

[JohnD]

how long ago was it flushed? it does look murky. Do you know if it is pumping-over?

 

[ljrgas]

comon practice in my veiw to clean out the f/e tank
but looking at that water i think i would question
1 how long he/she did it for or did he/she do it properly

 

[HERTS P&D]

I would question WAS it power flushed???

Andy

 

[Catmandoo2]

Thanks for all the replies to date.

The photo was taken just a few days after the Power-Flush.

The rust-coloured deposits around the waterline are similar to those found clogging-up the impellor in the circulating pump.

The circulating water is supposed to have been dosed with Fernex F1 Inhibitor at all times - and added again after the flushing.

Could this produce the cloudy water as seen in the photo?

And are such deposits to be expected on a system like mine over a period of six-years or so?

Shouldn't the Fernex prevent this if the correct dosage has been used - or is this too much to ask?

 

[JohnD]

I am not a pro but

1) I always say, bale out and sponge clean the tank before draining or working on the system, to avoid the sediment flowing down into the system. When my system was powerflushed, they drained it a couple of times, so I would have expected that even if my F&E tank hadn't already been clean, a lot of the dirt would have been washed down during refill.

2) red rust suggests oxygenated water getting into the system. The tank does not seem to be overfilling, so perhaps there is a leak and it is being topped up (the fresh water will also wash out the fernox) or maybe the system is pumping over. If you put a large glass jar under the vent pipe, you will see if it is pumping over, because it will fill with dirty water from the radiators. Also if you tie up the ball float for a few days, you will see of there is a leak, because the water level in the tank will drop.

How long did your powerflush take? Did you see how much dirt they trapped? Did they go round turning rads off and on individually? Did they connect the machine to the pump connections (after taking the pump off)?

If I were you, I would be thinking about having a system filter fitted to catch any loose circulating or new sediment before it can cause future restrictions or blockages. You can also look to see that it has trapped. If you can do DIY plumbing you could fit it yourself for £100 or so.

 

[Catmandoo2]

I am not a pro but

1) I always say, bale out and sponge clean the tank before draining or working on the system, to avoid the sediment flowing down into the system. When my system was powerflushed, they drained it a couple of times, so I would have expected that even if my F&E tank hadn't already been clean, a lot of the dirt would have been washed down during refill.

I believe the tank was emptied during the power flushing process, but no attempt made to clean it out. To do so it would need to be disconnected and removed, since it is located up against the rafters in the loft.

2) red rust suggests oxygenated water getting into the system. The tank does not seem to be overfilling, so perhaps there is a leak and it is being topped up (the fresh water will also wash out the fernox) or maybe the system is pumping over. If you put a large glass jar under the vent pipe, you will see if it is pumping over, because it will fill with dirty water from the radiators. Also if you tie up the ball float for a few days, you will see of there is a leak, because the water level in the tank will drop.

I'll try and have a go at that John, thanks.

How long did your powerflush take? Did you see how much dirt they trapped? Did they go round turning rads off and on individually? Did they connect the machine to the pump connections (after taking the pump off)?

The powerflush took most of the day. I was not shown anything that was flushed out. Individual rads were tuned-on via their stats but lock shields left as set (I believe). The machine was connected in place of a Rad, the pump remaining in line throughout.

If I were you, I would be thinking about having a system filter fitted to catch any loose circulating or new sediment before it can cause future restrictions or blockages. You can also look to see that it has trapped. If you can do DIY plumbing you could fit it yourself for £100 or so.

Yes, I'm thinking about doing that, but members of this forum seem to have mixed feelings about whether the magnetic type are worthwhile. Would they collect the type of deposits found in the F&E tank?

 

[JohnD]

I think the filters all collect both magnetic and non-magnetic particles now. The original Magnaclean only collected black sludge, but they now have a revised sleeve with a trap for other particles. But Magnacleans leak, so don't get one.

The others all seem to have copied the Spirovent design, which separates particles with a vortex (like a Dyson vacuum cleaner) and doesn't actually need a magnet, except as a marketing gimmick.

p.s.
to clean the tank, tie up the ball float, bale out the water into a bucket, scrub and sponge out the deposits into your bucket. If you wipe all internal surfaces, including the lid and the float, with bleach after cleaning, that will discourage mould or bacterial slime which is difficult and expensive to remove if it gets a hold. Refit a tight fitting lid and an insulating jacket.

 

[Catmandoo2]

Thanks JohnD

I have now hung jars under both the vent pipe and the feed ball valve in the F&E Tank, so I now await results.

A clean out of this tank will have wait until my installation company come back to me about their powerflush conclusions.

Is it worth going to the trouble and expense of testing the circulating water for Fernox levels?

Knowing that the installers rushed the end of the installation, in January 2006, I have never been confident that the system was left fully protected at the recommended dosage. Had it been, and assuming no leaks or over pumping, should there have been no deposits at all in the pump and F&E tank? Or is that too much to expect?

 

[JohnD]

I am not a pro, but provided there are no leaks or pumping-over, any dissolved oxygen in the water will soon be used up in corroding the insides of the radiators, and then you will usually get just a slow accumulation of black sludge, if there is no inhibitor. You don't often see brown or orange rust, since that requires air as well as water.

Years ago, Fernox used to say, drain a bit of rad water out of the drain cock into a jamjar, put a bright steel nail in it, screw the lid on, see if it goes rusty.

Now there there are more sophisticated and expensive ways to test, they don't say that any more.