Final Q's before i rip up my floor

[Deleted member 174758]

As you lay the P5 boards down us a perm black marker and draw on them the layout of any pipework and cables underneath. Be a god send in the future if you need anything doing.

Good idea for a domestic job!

 

[martin hill]

Nowt worse than not remembering where anything runs with 8 x 2 flooring. lol. Done it myself.

 

[markyyyyyy]

good idea regards permanent marker. Cheers.

I've taken up a couple of floorboaords on the landing to see what's what. The current floor boards actually measure at 24mm? So i would go with 22mm board.
Just a quick question in terms of approaching doors and pipework etc.

As can be seen in the pictures above (taken from top of stairs facing direction of slope into bedroom 2), what would i do with the floorboard that are directly under the studwall/ door frame - would i just cut around as closely as possible and then install my new floorboard neatly to the edge of the door frame?


In terms of approaching pipework, it appears that some pipes actually sit in some channels that are cut into the top of the old/current joists. When installing the new joists (sistered alongside), would i do cut the 4x2 so that it stops just before pipework and a new piece of timber that starts just after, or would you also dig a channel in?

I will tackle this shortly - i assume the best approach is to lift up the floor, see what i;ve got and then order my timber and materials?

thanks!

edit: excuse the mess in background, i only moved in a couple of weeks back and been busy building a log cabin

 

[Deleted member 174758]

...what would i do with the floorboard that are directly under the studwall/ door frame - would i just cut around as closely as possible and then install my new floorboard neatly to the edge of the door frame?

Yes, where walls are perpendicular to the joists. If they are parallel to the joists but not on top of a joist or trimmer (as can happen with retro installed walls) so that the floorboards are carrying the wwight of the wall you'll possibly need to get some extra support beneath the wall if there isnt any already (e.g. 4 x 2 noggins at 400mm centres, etc), which in turn is fixed into the two adjacent joists by screws or ring nails. This makes your rip out a little awkward as you need to take the floor out a bit at a time and install the noggins as you go in those areas

In terms of approaching pipework, it appears that some pipes actually sit in some channels that are cut into the top of the old/current joists. When installing the new joists (sistered alongside), would i do cut the 4x2 so that it stops just before pipework and a new piece of timber that starts just after...

Probably the easiest and fastest approach

 

[markyyyyyy]

Yes, where walls are perpendicular to the joists. If they are parallel to the joists but not on top of a joist or trimmer (as can happen with retro installed walls) so that the floorboards are carrying the wwight of the wall you'll possibly need to get some extra support beneath the wall if there isnt any already (e.g. 4 x 2 noggins at 400mm centres, etc), which in turn is fixed into the two adjacent joists by screws or ring nails. This makes your rip out a little awkward as you need to take the floor out a bit at a time and install the noggins as you go in those areas


Probably the easiest and fastest approach

great thanks - just a couple more questions if you don't mind!

1. Will radiators ' skirting have to come off before i take the floor up to expose joists?
2. Is it best practice to rip the floor up before getting timber ordered - only issue it it's a 10 day wait at the moment! Oh well!

 

[Deleted member 174758]

1. I'd advise rads and skirtings off if at all possible

2. Difficult. I think I'd order the timber and chance it. Timber supply is getting easier for us since Boris's mob told the merchants to reopen. We are drawing off timber on a 2 to 3 day wait basis unless it has to be imported, so the issue may be transport. That said we tend to be takung a few thousand pounds worth of timber a time, so maybe we get better service

 

[markyyyyyy]

1. I'd advise rads and skirtings off if at all possible

2. Difficult. I think I'd order the timber and chance it. Timber supply is getting easier for us since Boris's mob told the merchants to reopen. We are drawing off timber on a 2 to 3 day wait basis unless it has to be imported, so the issue may be transport. That said we tend to be takung a few thousand pounds worth of timber a time, so maybe we get better service

ah okay cool thanks! Fortunately i won't be spending that much

4 X 2's okay to use for the sistering of joists?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Yep! If your floor is out more than 25mm/2in you may additionally need some 5 x 2 or even 6 x 2. All depends on how bad it is. Hence the suggestion to do a survey first

 

[markyyyyyy]

okay - i think i'll rip it out first and see what i need! As the toolstation bulldog washers are m12, i suppose it makes sense getting M12 coach bolts? I'm assuming i also need standard m12 washers alongside the bulldog washers?

Probably another stupid Q and i'm sure the answer is ys, but am i correct in saying that i only need to sister 1 piece of timber to the side, rather than 2 pieces either side of old joist (unless rotten at the end / wall pocket as you say)

 

[Deleted member 174758]

We use 12mm bolts for most jobs - seems to be the one size structural engineers understand. You'll need bolts (which come with nuts), bulldogs and ideally large thick washers

You only sister one side. If you find a rotted joist end come back for advice, I'd say

 

[markyyyyyy]

i've just started a bit of the rip out and come across what looks like an old base for a fire in front of the chimney breast in bedroom 2. Do i leave it in? It will be approximately floor height, maybe just below. Would i just fit the new joists at level and then use a screed on top of it to make level with new floor level?

Also, will i NEED a multi saw for this job? The stud wall between bedroom 2 and bathroom runs parallel with the direction of the floor joists - and the wall doesnt appear to be on a joist - hopefully there are some noggins. Do i need a multisaw to cut perpendicular to the floorboards (cut parallel alongside edge of stud wall)?

Pic below of chimney breast base alongside timber floorboards

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Yes, I think I'd leave it in and ply over or SLC ooveif you need extra build up. Taking it out will involve you in doing a lot of work replacing joists, etc

Multitool will do the job but be slow (handy tool to have, however). Think I'd take the skirting off and cut the flooring out with a circular saw (set to the same deprh as the floor thickness). It depends on having a circular saw which can cut tight to rhe wall (not all saws can)

Where your wall runs parallel to the joists you do need to remove a small piece of flooring so you can see if they've put extra support into carry it. Various tools can do the job - it depends on what you've got

 

[markyyyyyy]

Update:

I have ripped out the majority of the floorboards, I also took out the teo xonxretr slabs that were effectively the fireplace base so I'll just run a noggin in to support the timber.

The floor slopes from hallway to bedroom 2 window and also slight slope off to the left corner (left of window).

My main issue now is the stud wall that runs parallel with the joist.

It appears that the stud wall is build on top of (near enough anyway) the joist but it is built into the floorboards. Because I will be cutting right next to the wall (circular saw only 1.5" minimum so not close enough), there will be no support as the floorboard won't be screwed onto the joist.

How do I go about supporting the stud wall whilst also removing th flooring right up to the wall?

There also appears to be no rotting of the joists, only the sloping and the slope off left I think is because the joist looks bowed/ twisted

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Good that there is no rot - one less thing to fret over

In terms of the unsupported stud wall, you'll need to add in support a bit at a time. Start by removing the skirting. Then take out the floor on both sides, but only for about 300 to 400mm length. This leaves a lot of the wall supported. Make a tight fitting noggin from your 4 x 2. Thread this in between the adjacent joists and under the wall (pulled tight up to the underside of the piece of floor which is beneath the wall). Nail or screw to the joists at either end. This provides the first support beneath the wall tied into two joists. Ideally you do need to pilot drill (and countersink) your screw holes before inserting the noggin. Pilot drill and screw or nail through the small piece of floor beneath the wall and into the noggin. This ties the wall to the noggin. Now move along another 300 to 400mm and repeat the operation until yo reach the end of the wall. This is slow, laborious, awkward and can be frustrating - but it gives your wall the support it needs.

 

[markyyyyyy]

Good that there is no rot - one less thing to fret over

In terms of the unsupported stud wall, you'll need to add in support a bit at a time. Start by removing the skirting. Then take out the floor on both sides, but only for about 300 to 400mm length. This leaves a lot of the wall supported. Make a tight fitting noggin from your 4 x 2. Thread this in between the adjacent joists and under the wall (pulled tight up to the underside of the piece of floor which is beneath the wall). Nail or screw to the joists at either end. This provides the first support beneath the wall tied into two joists. Ideally you do need to pilot drill (and countersink) your screw holes before inserting the noggin. Pilot drill and screw or nail through the small piece of floor beneath the wall and into the noggin. This ties the wall to the noggin. Now move along another 300 to 400mm and repeat the operation until yo reach the end of the wall. This is slow, laborious, awkward and can be frustrating - but it gives your wall the support it needs.

thanks for the reply again!

Oh bugger, does that mean my bath and sink have to come out?! I wonder if i may be able to put a screw into the joist from the side that i am working from - angled through the side of the noggin into the joist?