Firming up suspended wooden floor?

[diy_fun_uk]

Here's the issue, new washing machine installed. Has the potential to go up to 1600 spin however I'm limited to 600 spin otherwise floor vibration excessive. No transit bolts have been left in and all feet are on the ground and machine appears level. Although my previous machine didn't vibrate the floor much if at all, this new machine is.

I suspect the issue is the wooden floor. I don't want to muck about with vibration pads under the machine, if nothing else space is very limited. I can get under the house. If I was to consider throwing down a few slabs on the ground under the machine area (in line with nearest joists) and shore up with some 4x4 jammed in and appropriately secured, do you reckon this will alleviate the issue and enabling me to open that baby up spin wise?

Or, in doing this, could I be causing potential structural damage to my property i.e. displacing the stresses when the machine is spinning? I'm in a timber kit house if of relevance.

 

[Notch7]

if its just earth underneath, I reckon the slabs may just sink after a while

you could sister the joists and screw plywood to the underside in that area -all depends what access you have

 

[diy_fun_uk]

if its just earth underneath, I reckon the slabs may just sink after a while

you could sister the joists and screw plywood to the underside in that area -all depends what access you have

The access isn't bad, I don't think it's pure earth underneath, see attached. This doesn't show the area under the kitchen, however the kitchen is along the same side but off camera to the left. The challenge I'll have now I come to think about it (if I want to put slabs down) is as you can see the ground surface works up to a gradient and the machine is at that back wall directly above the slope.



p.s. if you're wondering about the pic, I realised x years back I could see daylight through my bath waste!!! You can see why!!!

 

[foxhole]

Washing machine will shake if not level .

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Washing machine will shake if not level .

Yeah, I'm 99% sure it's not the machine. Although my previous machine didn't create this effect to anywhere near the same degree, there was slight vibration. The 4 feet are planted on the ground and as far as I can check (under worktop) it appears pretty level. Even when the machine is simply turning slowly, if a heavy-ish item e.g. large wet towel falls from top to bottom of drum, you feel this when standing beside the machine. We had this before in a house and lived with it, a quick Google indicates quite a common issue with wooden floors.

I'm not sure if I should try sistering the joists as per Notch's post, or find a way to shore up from the ground below the joists. Seems a shame to have a machine that can spin to 1600 and I'm limited to 600 - 800

What I need to know is if bracing the floor in a single section could cause issues elsewhere, if yes I'll live with it.

 

[foxhole]

You could put a slap on the sub floor with a bracing timber across the underside of joists and then drop an adjustable leg down under to brace the floor directly under machine .

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/CONNEX-HV4...b-ba29-4516-ab24-1fe7a60c913d&epid=2254765403

 

[diy_fun_uk]

You could put a slap on the sub floor with a bracing timber across the underside of joists and then drop an adjustable leg down under to brace the floor directly under machine .

https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/CONNEX-HV4269-Adjustable-Post-Support-Shoe/293350731002?ul_ref=https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-53481-19255-0/1?toolid=11000&campid=5338767030&customid=eb:g:vms:eb:293350731002;EAIaIQobChMIwdWZr5mf7gIVVviyCh3PuAJpEAQYFCABEgJ9OPD_BwE&catId=159912&type=2&ext=293350731002&item=293350731002&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIwdWZr5mf7gIVVviyCh3PuAJpEAQYFCABEgJ9OPD_BwE&srcrot=710-53481-19255-0&rvr_id=2770324328114&rvr_ts=089a0e051770a1e4a3e4bc3dffe8a372&_mwBanner=1&_rdt=1&ul_noapp=true&pageci=8f0847cb-ba29-4516-ab24-1fe7a60c913d&epid=2254765403

I'm hoping to do something like this, however a possible (actual) challenge is the floor directly underneath is on a gradient I'll head down there this weekend to see what my options are. Thanks for the link.

 

[jj4091]

Newer high spin speed machines suffer much more from shaking problems with an unbalanced load than older machines used to. Have you tried spin only mode with the machine empty. A large wet towel would definitely unbalance a 9Kg drum.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Newer high spin speed machines suffer much more from shaking problems with an unbalanced load than older machines used to. Have you tried spin only mode with the machine empty. A large wet towel would definitely unbalance a 9Kg drum.

Newer machines check their vibration levels in the spin, will stop spinning if too high, try to rebalance the load and try again.

I would suggest that ground looks fairly firm. I would drop a slab in, get it level by scraping the soil away, rather than digging/disturbing, timber blocks then something like an old car scissor jack push up against a firm timber (3x2), spanning the underside of several joists. The jack needs to be under the front of the washer - towards the centre of the unsupported span.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Newer high spin speed machines suffer much more from shaking problems with an unbalanced load than older machines used to. Have you tried spin only mode with the machine empty. A large wet towel would definitely unbalance a 9Kg drum.

Yeah I've tried it, albeit just up to 1000 rpm, on a spin with no clothes and the machine is very stable, practically no shaking from the machine (if any) and just slight vibration felt when standing in the kitchen. In that sense I'm pleased as this indicates the machine itself is balanced within acceptable parameters. Yeah as you say the weight in even one wet large towel is significant, when I had it on a wash of towels you could feel a very slight single vibration/thump if a towel dropped in the drum. This indicates to me the floor needs shoring/strengthening, hopefully I'm right on that.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Newer machines check their vibration levels in the spin, will stop spinning if too high, try to rebalance the load and try again.

I would suggest that ground looks fairly firm. I would drop a slab in, get it level by scraping the soil away, rather than digging/disturbing, timber blocks then something like an old car scissor jack push up against a firm timber (3x2), spanning the underside of several joists. The jack needs to be under the front of the washer - towards the centre of the unsupported span.

Yeah I think it's this sort of solution I'll try. Putting it near the centre of the kitchen span helps as the ground underneath starts to level off. And you don't think I'll be creating potential issues elsewhere by doing this e.g. displacing the energy to other parts of the building? I'm conscious that I'll be stopping the natural movement of the floor in that area when the machine is spinning, so the energy from the spinning machine is getting absorbed elsewhere? Or am I talking guff?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Yeah I think it's this sort of solution I'll try. Putting it near the centre of the kitchen span helps as the ground underneath starts to level off. And you don't think I'll be creating potential issues elsewhere by doing this e.g. displacing the energy to other parts of the building? I'm conscious that I'll be stopping the natural movement of the floor in that area when the machine is spinning, so the energy from the spinning machine is getting absorbed elsewhere? Or am I talking guff?

I would say best effect will be placing it just to the front of the machine. Near middle of floor area there will be much more flex and bounce.

The energy will be transferred straight into the ground mass, which will vibrate, but due to its mass it will be slight. It will not cause any problems, providing you don't tighten the jack too much. It just needs to take the weight, no more than that.

 

[foxhole]

Yeah I think it's this sort of solution I'll try. Putting it near the centre of the kitchen span helps as the ground underneath starts to level off. And you don't think I'll be creating potential issues elsewhere by doing this e.g. displacing the energy to other parts of the building? I'm conscious that I'll be stopping the natural movement of the floor in that area when the machine is spinning, so the energy from the spinning machine is getting absorbed elsewhere? Or am I talking guff?

Yes place under centre , more weight on the rear feet but it all needs support equally.

 

[jj4091]

Yeah I've tried it, albeit just up to 1000 rpm, on a spin with no clothes and the machine is very stable, practically no shaking from the machine (if any) and just slight vibration felt when standing in the kitchen. In that sense I'm pleased as this indicates the machine itself is balanced within acceptable parameters. Yeah as you say the weight in even one wet large towel is significant, when I had it on a wash of towels you could feel a very slight single vibration/thump if a towel dropped in the drum. This indicates to me the floor needs shoring/strengthening, hopefully I'm right on that.

To me this indicates that everything is as it should be, it's just that the increased spin speed creates a higher frequency vibration which is much more noticeable & is transmitted through the surface of the floor, like a drum skin, rather than the whole floor structure (joists ). On that basis I would have thought strengthening the joists will not help, but I would be really interested to hear if it does if that is what you decided to do. I suspect that the problem lies in the quality of the components used in free standing machines these days as integrated machines do not seem to suffer from the same problem but are much more expensive ( or used to be).

 

[cdbe]

For all the messing about and difficulty of making rigid propping etc I'd just cut out the floorboards and cast a rough concrete slab on the oversite, doesn't look like too deep a void in that area - a bit of scrap timber shuttering and some weak mix concrete. You'd just need a bit of thought on the DPC side of things.