floodlighting

[danindigo1981]

hi ive recently had some floodlights installed on our horse exercise arena. we have 4no. columns each with 2no. 400w metal halide floods on them. from the floods come 2.5mm flex down to junction box down the pole then from there theres 4mm SWA that runs cover 2no poles (one run on each long side of the arena. That 4mm aroured cable then runs back to a new consumer unit.
the cable runs for the flex would be approx 3m each & for the SWA 50m & 60m.

when this was tested at completion all eight lights came on a worked pefectly but now we only have 4 currently working (the ones closest to the consumer unit dont work). every so often one of the four lamps that are out will work but the next day you use them they wont.

can anyone suggest anything that may be incorrect here as im at a loss.

At first i thought it must be cheap lamps blowing but then they would work for a time!

any other info required please ask!

thanks for reading and hopefully sharing some knowledge!

 

[b13kal]

Sound like a job for an electricain to investigate ? How long has it been since it was fitted? Is the swa terminated above ground in a sealed box? Could be loose wiring ? How does it turn on?

 

[Lectrician]

Dodgy control gear on cheap light fittings, or a loose connection.

TBH, it sounds like a reasonably well designed install.

Pics?

 

[danindigo1981]

Sound like a job for an electricain to investigate ? How long has it been since it was fitted? Is the swa terminated above ground in a sealed box? Could be loose wiring ? How does it turn on?

the install was done aprrox 3-4 months ago. The SWA terminates in a sealed box approx 2m up the pole.

 

[danindigo1981]

Dodgy control gear on cheap light fittings, or a loose connection.

TBH, it sounds like a reasonably well designed install.

Pics?

ive checked all the connections in the junction boxes from the SWA to flex and all seem ok. what i havent yet checked are the connections into the fitting itself as they are at the top of a telegraph pole and dont fancy climbing a ladder leant against a round pole any ideas on the best way to fix a ladder onto a round pole chaps?

if i get up there and all connections seem to be as they should how will i know if its the control gear?

sorry i missed off b13kal's reply to "how is it switched on". i have a IP65 2-gang switch where each switch controls 2 poles with a total of 4no. 400w floods on each switch.

 

[b13kal]

At the bottom of the pole check for switch live with the switch on. If you are getting the switch live then is more like up the pole or even wiring to the lights ? It's strang how so many have gone off?


I would bypass the switch live and see if the lights come on. If your thinking of lack of power then try them one by one and disconnect the rest of them, it's a long winded proses but if you got time on your hands go for it?


Ow don't forget to check the neutral and earth too at each pole?

Don't climb poles!!!

Hire out a ladder that don't need to lean on the pole . It's like a triangle or platform

Once you find the issue the rest will follow ?

It's not tripping is it ? Just eliminating burnt wiring up pole

 

[danindigo1981]

At the bottom of the pole check for switch live with the switch on. If you are getting the switch live then is more like up the pole or even wiring to the lights ? It's strang how so many have gone off?


I would bypass the switch live and see if the lights come on. If your thinking of lack of power then try them one by one and disconnect the rest of them, it's a long winded proses but if you got time on your hands go for it?


Ow don't forget to check the neutral and earth too at each pole?

Don't climb poles!!!

Hire out a ladder that don't need to lean on the pole . It's like a triangle or platform

Once you find the issue the rest will follow ?

It's not tripping is it ? Just eliminating burnt wiring up pole

hi, thanks again for the reply. would u mind describing in lamens terms how to check the switch live at the bottom of the pole. the 2-gang switches that i talked about are located in a shed adjacent to the arena. is that what you are referring to?

i agree with how strange it is. one pole which is the one nearest to the CU has none working on it and they are pretty much off all the time. then the next light on the main is mainly off but sometimes decides to work and then the light furthest away always works! on the other run on the nearest pole theres always one out and then the pole furthest away both of them always work.

its never tripped no so we can rule that out i guess!

thanks again

 

[RF Lighting]

My money is on a burnt out switch. 4 x 400W discharge floods is a heck of a large load for a normal weatherproof switch to handle.

Turn all the power off, and at the back of the switch you'll see two brown wires. Disconnect one of the wires and connect it into the same terminal as the other brown wire. This will bypass the switch, and hopefully they'll come on anoce you've screwed the switch back and turn the power back on.

Edit, sorry just seen your post above. It sounds as though there is power running to each coloumn, so probably not a switch fault.

You need to confirm this with a two pole voltage tester, or a multimeter. Test Live to neutral, live to earth and neutral to earth. You should get a voltage of around 230V for the first two tests, and around 0V for the third.

 

[danindigo1981]

yes RF there's power to each pole as ive had a volt meter on them - ill double check the volts when i can get hold of another set (mine went walkies on a site!) but i dont recall anything alarming.

anything else guys?

 

[RF Lighting]

It's definately sounding like either duff lamps or a problem with the control gear in the back of the flood lights.

As it's such a new installation, I'd be suspecting a faulty batch of lamps.

It's too coincidental that you've lost several lights on different coloumns and on different feeds for it to be a duff connection, and the fact that some of the lights sometimes works does sound very typical of failing discharge lamps.

 

[danindigo1981]

ar so even if they sometimes work it may still be the lamps themselves rather than the fitting? it did say that they were branded lamps that came with the fitting but there was no stamp on them?!?!

any reccomendations on where i can get some at a good price?

 

[333rocky333]

The trouble with son 400 lamps is there made both with and without internal igniters

Some fit the internal ignited lamps regardless of the control gear,although they do work i personally dont recomend that and personally dont know how long they would last.

Have you any evidence of lamp type you have fitted, or were they supplied with the fittings rather than seperate.

Though it sounds like the faulty ones are the shortest cable route.
another common fault is low voltage at the fitting causing striking problems, sometimes the ballast tapping needs altering to suit, the tappings can range from 220 volt to 250 volt

 

[danindigo1981]

The trouble with son 400 lamps is there made both with and without internal igniters

Some fit the internal ignited lamps regardless of the control gear,although they do work i personally dont recomend that and personally dont know how long they would last.

Have you any evidence of lamp type you have fitted, or were they supplied with the fittings rather than seperate.

Though it sounds like the faulty ones are the shortest cable route.
another common fault is low voltage at the fitting causing striking problems, sometimes the ballast tapping needs altering to suit, the tappings can range from 220 volt to 250 volt

hi. these lamps are metal halide not SON's rocky. they came with the fitting in a seperate box - i specified i wanted 400w MH with the fitting.

how would you alter the ballast tapping?

 

[333rocky333]

Oops sorry, metal halide as your first post did say, theres only one type of M/H and they always needs a seperate igniter remote from the lamp.
Ive yet to see an electronic external version but may be wrong.

M/H also have closer voltage tolerance than son,its usually on the lamp instructions and sometimes only +/- 5% before affecting lamp life, even just fitting upside down can apparently affect the lamp operation.

The ignitors if fitted could also be Timed so if they dont strike within say ten minutes then they shut the fitting down.

If you watch the duff ones when you originally turn on do they even attempt to start ,if you have a decent zoom camera can you get a picture of the faulty lamps from ground level, the colour and oxidation of the lamp can give clues to its failure.

The tappings are on the ballast inside the fitting, however Uk fittings nowadays are usually set on 230 so in most cases there ok as they are.

However the recomended way is to measure voltage at the fitting and set accordingly, though often not done as its not ideal when up a ladder so would not recomend you attempt that.
It is worth taking a L to N voltage reading at the base though considering the run is 60 metres and go from there

 

[333rocky333]

If you get bored later

http://www.venturelighting.com/techcenter/troubleshooting.html