Frozen condensate pipes everywhere you go

[gigz]

In an ideal world we would run them internally, but tell the customer they can have it straight out the wall into drain/soakaway or (sometimes have to) rip out half the kitchen/bathroom etc to get to waste/soil, drill worktops, plus the extra time/labour involved, most installers/customers will agree (as long as its done to M.I.s) to go the first way.

 

[MJN]

[...] straight out the wall into drain/soakaway [...]

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with that, it's when horizontal/uphill and/or undersized/underprotected pipework is used that causes the problems. Again; installer faults not boiler technology.

Mathew

 

[tfish]

its beyond a joke, i disagree its purely a installation issue. No boilder manual i have seen mentions protecting the waste pipe... you would need to build up a box around it and fill with insu to do it properly...

Garden Taps are well know to freeze and need protecting and they dont BLOODY DRIP CONSTENTLY

Every flipping home in the country had these kind of boilders installed without any thought beinbg given to cold temps... people saying "the manufacturers didnt think of this or didnt expect this" isnt a excuse thats short sightedness and shoddy.

Even a secondary school pupil given a task to design something such a boilder with a external constently dripping water feature would know to give it frost protection.

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

its beyond a joke, i disagree its purely a installation issue. No boilder manual i have seen mentions protecting the waste pipe... you would need to build up a box around it and fill with insu to do it properly...

Garden Taps are well know to freeze and need protecting and they dont BLOODY DRIP CONSTENTLY

Every flipping home in the country had these kind of boilders installed without any thought beinbg given to cold temps... people saying "the manufacturers didnt think of this or didnt expect this" isnt a excuse thats short sightedness and shoddy.

Even a secondary school pupil given a task to design something such a boilder with a external constently dripping water feature would know to give it frost protection.

Well Maybe in the future, Worcester, Glowworm, Ferroli etc etc etc will employ a school boy to write installation instructions to fit to their condensate pipes, and maybe dream up the regs to abide by, couldn't be any worse than they are now.

 

[mickyg]

No boilder manual i have seen mentions protecting the waste pipe..

why should they need to? They assume people fitting the boiler are proffessionals and will fit the waste so as to avoid freezing without the need for a "condense pipes for dummies" guide.
None of my boilers I've ever installed have suffered with frozen condense pipes and some of those are outside.
Its down to the installer, and its nice finally to have a fault that highlights how many poor installers are out there.

 

[Garfeild]

Whats a boilder?

 

[boiler_new]

No boilder manual i have seen mentions protecting the waste pipe..

why should they need to? They assume people fitting the boiler are proffessionals and will fit the waste so as to avoid freezing without the need for a "condense pipes for dummies" guide.
None of my boilers I've ever installed have suffered with frozen condense pipes and some of those are outside.
Its down to the installer, and its nice finally to have a fault that highlights how many poor installers are out there.

hey fair enough there must be alot of poor installers around. I am experiencing the same problem at the moment have you got any tips on correcting for the future.

CHRISTMAS CAME EARLY FOR THE PLUMBERS haha fair enough

 

[snb]

just been to unfreeze a condensate connected into 4in stack. Condensate on 40mm partially frozen but the vertical 4in stack had completely frozen a section just over 10 inches.

How can you be blamed for a poor install design when that happens?

 

[JohnD]

I am just a DIYer, but when I had my replacement boiler fitted, I took care to have it in a position where the plume wouldn't blow past any windows, and the condensate could go to the internal waste pipe next to the sink.

Surely if the potential problems are clearly explained, most customers would agree to do the sensible thing?

 

[Whitespirit66]

Surely if the potential problems are clearly explained, most customers would agree to do the sensible thing?

Trouble is, many customers want the cheapest thing. Fitting a condensate (still to MIs) the quickest route to a drain can make the difference between your quote being competetive or not. The bloke who wants to take his time using cond. pumps and running pipes all over the house may loose out on price.

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

I am just a DIYer, but when I had my replacement boiler fitted, I took care to have it in a position where the plume wouldn't blow past any windows, and the condensate could go to the internal waste pipe next to the sink.

Surely if the potential problems are clearly explained, most customers would agree to do the sensible thing?

Don't bank on it.......

 

[Whitespirit66]

Anyway, condensate pipes are just the good Lord's way of making sure that plumbers don't go hungry at Christmas.

Years ago, before people heated their houses properly, and many water pipes weren't insulated, plumbers could rely on a steady stream (literally) of burst pipe work.

Condensate pipe freezes are just the modern 21st century green-friendly substitute to pipe freezes, to make sure that we have some folding in our back pockets.

 

[genghis]

Jesus. Im absolutely gutted and in a rage, why such a simple thing could not be fixed by following simple guidelines:

http://www.atmos.uk.com/core_files/productDoc(102).pdf

My condensation pipe froze yesterday, it backed up to the hilt and then seeped into the carpet floor and ceiling. My boiler is located on the first floor. there are so many complaints about this and the ive just been arguing the toss with John Dunne ltd from leeds about relocating the condensate run off pipe to somewhere else. The are point blank refusing and say its due to the abnormal weather conditions. Its not the weather we regularly have freezing conditions every years. Its a design and lazy plumbing issue!

Why isnt there any help from any official body?

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Unfortunately it was an 'Official body' i.e. the previous government that made installation of condensing boilers mandatory. Some installers have upgraded condensate runs to 32 and 40mm pipe to try and prevent freezing, but when we have 4" pipes freezing then it begs the question what can actually be done to prevent this issue.

Building regs need amendment to provide for all new builds to have the condensate drain from the boiler connected to the drainage system internally, but this will go nowhere to solve the current issues being experienced.

 

[genghis]

Unfortunately it was an 'Official body' i.e. the previous government that made installation of condensing boilers mandatory. Some installers have upgraded condensate runs to 32 and 40mm pipe to try and prevent freezing, but when we have 4" pipes freezing then it begs the question what can actually be done to prevent this issue.

Building regs need amendment to provide for all new builds to have the condensate drain from the boiler connected to the drainage system internally, but this will go nowhere to solve the current issues being experienced.

There is nothing wrong with the building regs. In fact the guideline ive posted above allow you to run off condensate to Sink/Rain/Waste waste pipes. We wouldnt have the freezing pipe issue if plumbers followed simple guidelines.

Building regs even say it:

http://www.canterbury.gov.uk/assets/buildingcontrol/approved-document-h-2006.pdf

See section 1.14!

Its simple incompetence! and money making by plumbers and heating specialists. Must be a bonanza!