Frozen condensate pipes everywhere you go

[lawrance]

Hi

I understand that there are many great tradesmen out there, however the corgi registered person who installed my boiler 2 years ago, left 22mm pipe with no lagging - the pipe froze only once that year, however we didnt know this was the problem and had to pay a lump sum to BG and join their monthly scheme to avoid paying over £300 in one go.

I did not have the choice of paying extra to have the pipe run internally as I was never told about this option. It seems that when the law was introduced in Scotland regarding these new boilers, there were those who did not pay attention to the rules or not enough information was given? Even when we called the installer for any ideas when the boiler cut out on xmas eve, he said "sounds like a pressure problem" therefore we had to pay BG, only to find the BG defrosted the pipe with a hairdryer.

This year we were better armed having lagged the pipework but the pipe still froze and since then we have changed to 32mm pipe, increased the amont of lagging, added 45 degree elbows (he had 90) and in desperation therma wrap (yes we know it is meant for copper pipe but i am frustrated with it and was willing to try almost anything).

It has been really helpful reading this forum and unfortunately we have no nearby waste pipe to connect the condensate pipe to (which may be the reason why the installer never mentioned it - but since he didnt lag the pipe and left it sitting in the gutter, which not surprisingly froze with several inches of snow in it, at the time - I doubt it).

To add to the frustration Worchester recommend maintaining a temperature of 15 degrees - wel,l since our heating does not drop below 19 I can tell you that that doesnt work, not for us. The opposite in fact i.e. if the heating is not on, it is not producing the condensed water and so does not freeze (as much)! Besides this.. the whole point is to have a well insulated home therefore the heating will stay off and the room at 21 for some time but i am being told, with rising bills, to keep the heating on all the time - so much for energy saving then eh?

I am interested in trying the cable tape/wire tape. If anyone has tried this I would be grateful for their advice and thank you all for letting me rant...

hmmmnn, how much have you paid to bg to date then? and where has it got you with this matter?

 

[numpty1]

condense pipes,soil stacks,waste pipes will all freeze at the temps we are getting minus 15 at night to minus 5 during the day at the moment,house holders have to take some of the blame especially those who have the heating on a timer and let it stay off overnight instead of leaving it ticking over at a lower temp.two boilers i attended to yesterday were blocks of ice due to this,oil lines freezing filters frozen water in the oil tanks frozen at the outlet all down to lazy dozy homeowners too tight to pay for proper maintenance.no sympathy whatsoever.

 

[lumoruk]

Have started suffering the same fate, though hair dryer did the trick. 24 hrs later I'm in the same boat. It's not cut off my boiler it's just leaked all in my attic and I have a massive brown patch on my ceiling now, nice

My bathroom is currently in pieces so was looking at where I could run it internally easily but looking at the regs it all needs to be plastic due to the acidity of the condensate. My outside stack is 1930's iron

 

[JohnD]

I was thinking about this, and it seems to me you should think about a boiler like you do a basin. No-one would expect to put a basin where there was no drain available, and no-one would expect to poke a basin waste pipe through the wall and nail it to the outside of the house. Quite apart from the freezing, it would be unsightly.

p.s. lumoruk you can get an attachment to neutralise the acidity, it is basically a filter filled with lumps of chalk or something.

 

[lumoruk]

Ah that's what the guy above was saying about the condensing drain off device, didn't understand where I put it

How long does the limestone last though? would it need to be accessible?

 

[transam]

There is no reason why u cannot run condensate into a cast iron stack , providing it is not the highest connection !

 

[malshep]

The corgi registered person who installed my boiler 2 years ago, left 22mm pipe with no lagging - the pipe froze only once that year, however we didnt know this was the problem and had to pay a lump sum to BG and join their monthly scheme to avoid paying over £300 in one go.

I'll add a rant to yours. A friend's 90yo mother has recently been widowed, so we're all keeping an eye on her.

She has been on BG monthly maintainence for many years but 3-4 yrs ago was persuaded by them that she needed a new boiler. BG duly installed one and it has been far more trouble than the previous one, requiring call out time and again.

This month the heating's been off 3 times, once for two days, all because of the condensate pipe freezing. One engineer suddenly decided there was an underlying problem in that the condensate pipe did not have the correct "fall" on it and it was going to cost £200 to correct !!!

The nerve of it !! They installed a boiler incorrectly, had it on a maintenance contract ever since and could you now please pay extra to correct the installation !!

Now we're having to ensure someone is with the old lady every time BG comes to make sure they don't give her any more guff. However the maintenance engineers refuse point blank to alter the condensate pipe (it has to be done by the "installation" team) and it may be weeks before that happens. We've lagged the pipe for her in the hope of improving the situation but it hasn't solved the problem completely. Fortunately she's getting well practised in calling the BG number - only she ends up without heating for hours, even days at a time !!

Happy Christmas BG! End of rant.

 

[Ltnman]

British Gas has the answer. They will fit a heating element to the pipe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSMx8GoD01Q&feature=related

 

[shambolic]

Hmm ??lets not lose sight that the condensate pipe is connected to the flue ?? & the only thing stopping co coming out is what ? water in a trap or a plastic ball ?? I attended one boiler install , & due to a set of circumstances , saw products of combustion coming out a sink waste ?? occured every morning when the boiler came on ??

Why dont we read the quidelines? and the B Regs...Section H...paragraph 1.14! its says you can plumb the condensate pipe in soil waste pipe, rainwater waste pipe or the sink waste pipe on the proviso that certain restriction are met eg a trap and height etc.

Hawl Bawheid its been minus 20 in scotland and ive seen internal condense pipes backing up and flooding boilers as the drains and stacks are freezing, nothing to do with instal. Also putting into rainwater pipes is a no no as they do freeze and also block up with leaves and due to the head of water from the roof to top of boiler you would be looking at a new one(boiler) if rain pipe blocked.
But blame the plumber and engineer cause you have read and partially understodd something making you an expert.
Not nice having upstairs ****e coming out a boilers fan!

 

[jimhet]

Looks like we've all been sold a condensate lemon with the charge to save the planet, perhaps its time to bring back the balanced flue. Wasteful I know, but hardly ever let us down.

 

[Tibbot]

I was thinking about this, and it seems to me you should think about a boiler like you do a basin. No-one would expect to put a basin where there was no drain available, and no-one would expect to poke a basin waste pipe through the wall and nail it to the outside of the house. Quite apart from the freezing, it would be unsightly.

You're making a sensible point but with basins you needn't consider flueing, also they tend to only go in a wash room. Condensers should've only been mandatory for new build or new systems leaving boiler changes at band C/D. I can't see the environmental benefit of boilers that simply take polution from the air, condense it to a liquid and throw it underground, prematurely wrecking heat exchangers on the way. Add to that the men & motors having to run round p**sing about with them.

 

[ivixor]

and no-one would expect to poke a basin waste pipe through the wall and nail it to the outside of the house. Quite apart from the freezing, it would be unsightly.

Er, not sure about where you are, but here almost all drainage is done this way in pre 1970 houses, and in some which are a lot later than that. No freezing problems as long as you dont leave a cold tap dripping.

 

[Tipper]

Most cheapo boilers dribble condensate constantly which doesn't help. However some do have a proper periodic syphonic emptying of a reservoir.

The more expensive Vaillant Ecotec Plus does this iirc.

Maybe it's just a case of you get what you pay for?

 

[Onetap]

Not nice having upstairs s***te coming out a boilers fan!

So the sh*t really does hit the fan?

 

[roberta1000]

Looks like we've all been sold a condensate lemon with the charge to save the planet, perhaps its time to bring back the balanced flue. Wasteful I know, but hardly ever let us down.

Brother-in-law's Potterton failed today with a frozen condensate pipe. Vertical run down an outside wall but it froze in the leg through the wall. Not a big job to fix luckily.

My Ideal E-type is still going just fine. I've been advised that I could save £200-300 a year by switching to a nice new boiler. That should almost cover the annual servicing, endless spare part renewal and occasional repair callout which modern boilers all seem to need.

I'd rather spend it on the gas and keep the reliability.