fused switch into single socket

[dgreengo]

hello all. quick question/some advice on electrical matter at home. had a great response to a different problem i posted last year, so thanks to everyone on making this site what it is.

regarding fuse switch for heater in hall. 2 black, 2 red and 2 earths come into the fuse switch terminal block, and on the other side of the block is brown and blue cables.

1 brown, 1 blue and 1 Y/G go from the fuse switch to another wall panel 1 metre away for the heater.
On this panel terminal, there is the blue, brown and an earth. however there is also a very thin (like telephone cabling) coming down from the wall into a terminal block which meets the black cable of the heater.

At the mains board, there is a switch for BOTH this heater and the lounge heater (ie, they are on the same mains board switch) . Is it possible to put in a normal socket where the fused switch is, or even where the other wall panel is.
socket would be used for plugging in hoover etc

many thanks in advance

dg



fuse switch

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other wall panel

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[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Are you removing the heater or intending to install a socket feeding from the spur?
If the latter probably not!
As the heater will be rated for the spur and the output of heater and additional socket will be too much, plus the heater should be on it's own circuit, the circuit will be rated for this appliance only.

 

[dgreengo]

firstly thanks for getting in touch

i was hoping to remove the heater as i dont want it there anymore and have read that leaving/covering wires in the wall is very poor practice / insurance becomes invalid.


i just want to remove the fused switch and put a socket in its place as i dont want to plaster over loose cables! no heater.
its a difficult one, as i do understand it is on its own circuit. is there any way of finding something to put in its place? i cannot be the first person who has done this, so wondering what others have done before.

dg

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

You are right, it is not good practice to leave live cables in the wall. Specially if then the location of the accessory is going to be filled in, as this will then remove evidence that cables are there and put them outside the permitted safe zones.
If this switched fused spur is on it's own circuit and the fuse rating at the board is high enough, 16A, 20A etc.. then it should be okay to replace with a socket outlet.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

I imagine the shed police will be along shortly, though, and bang on about RCDs.

 

[dgreengo]

hi again

when i say 'own circuit' it is cabled as pictured above, the only thing is the circuit breaker at the main fusebox is labelled up "hall / lounge" heater. ie, the circuit also has the lounge heater on it. (the other heater in the bedroom has its own circuit breaker next to these at the fusebox.)

just looked in the fusebox. hall/lounge heater is rated 32. bedroom and bathroom on own circuit each rated 16. 2 red wires leave the hall/lounge heater circuit breaker.

alternatively, and i know this is maybe a very stupid question/idea....can i get someone to install a 16 rated circuit breaker instead of 32 on the 'hall/lounge' circuit breaker, and move the hall cable over to the socket circuit breaker as i will be using it as a socket now? i know the cable rating is possibly different etc, but is that defintely a no-no and would i need to changet he rating of the socket circuit breaker in doing so? i wouldnt be doing any of the work myself, just exploring options at the moment. this is assuming they each are independent after leaving the circuit breaker.

dg

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Is the lounge/hall heater a radial circuit?
How many phase conductors are terminated in the 32A MCB?
If it's a radial there will be one phase conductor in the MCB, making it impossible to split the circuit up!

 

[dgreengo]

as for phase conductor

see these for info :

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[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Well looking at that and your previous picture, it suggest that the circuit is a RFC (ring).
So you have possibilities of splitting the circuit,
It will mean disconnecting the ring and making two radial circuits and down rating the MCBs, one to serve the lounge heater and the other to serve the socket.
The back box looks like a dry-wall one, so is this a stud partition and can you/electrician remove the cable between the two heaters?
If so you may be okay!

 

[dgreengo]

It will mean disconnecting the ring and making two radial circuits and down rating the MCBs, one to serve the lounge heater and the other to serve the socket.

there is a spare place for another CB, so could go in there i suppose

The back box looks like a dry-wall one, so is this a stud partition and can you/electrician remove the cable between the two heaters?

you mean the part of the ring from the hall heater to the lounge heater?
i only wanted to see if this was viable as i dont want to buy another heater! another heater is 80-100 quid, so would probably be cheaper than getting an electrician in to start pulling cables etc. wife is also expecting, so the less hassle the better to be honest. its a silly leasehold flat as well, so unable to gain access above ceiling etc. i just didnt want future tenants phoning me up to get another heater after 2 years as they seem to go quite often！getting a Periodic inspection report done next week so might ask the electrician when he/she! is in .

thanks for the input, seems more complicated than i had hoped for but i appreciate your input nonetheless.



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[EFLImpudence]

Let's have an easy life.

Is it possible to put in a normal socket where the fused switch is

Yes.
Amend the CU label.

or even where the other wall panel is.

Yes, it will be a spur off the ring - perfectly acceptable.

Or if you want to fill in this hole -
Disconnect at both ends and remove the cable.
If you cannot remove the cable then put all three wires joined together into one separate connector at each end so that it is obvious that it is not live.

 

[dgreengo]

Amend the CU label.

that idea saves a lot of work!

i was just going to leave the fused switch where it is,ie live, but remove anything coming from it. it would still be marked on the MCB, just without any connection after the fused switch. not sure if this is Ok though

 

[EFLImpudence]

i was just going to leave the fused switch where it is,ie live, but remove anything coming from it. it would still be marked on the MCB, just without any connection after the fused switch. not sure if this is Ok though

Yes, fine.

 

[dgreengo]

just on another note, how can you tell its ring circuit just from the pictures i gave?

 

[EFLImpudence]

32A mcb.
Two wires in the mcb,
Two of each wire in the fused connector.

It's either a ring final circuit or very oddly wired.

Either way it will be the same as it always has been.

To tell for sure -
Switch off the power, separate the wires in the fused connector and connect an ohm meter from L to L, N to N and E to E.
There should be continuity between each pair of wires of the same colour.
The L and N readings should be near enough the same and the E 1.67 x more.