Can I change a double socket to a DP Fused swch & single

[DetlefSchmitz]

Although it's worth saying FWIW that not all sockets have a double pole switch.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Although it's worth saying FWIW that not all sockets have a double pole switch.

True, but that's an easy fix.

 

[JohnW2]

Fair cop. These are the MIs
The heater is fitted with a length of flexible cable type H05VVF size 4 x 1.0mm2 for connection to the fixed wiring of the premises through a suitable connection box positioned adjacent to the heater. The supply circuit to the heater must incorporate a double pole isolating switch having a contact separation of at least 3mm.
Could that be a socket?

A socket with a DP switch providing 3mm separation should be available. However, I presume you are talking about using a plug with the socket, and I imagine one might struggle to safely terminate/isolate the 'pilot wire' within a plug, wouldn't one - even getting a bit of 2A connector block in there could be a fight?

Anyway, would you be happy that such an arrangement complied with "connection to the fixed wiring of the premises through a suitable connection box"?

P.S.When I said that I would be happy to use a plug/socket in my own home, I didn't realise it was a 4-core cable.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[RF Lighting]

I'm pretty sure you'll acheive DP isolation with more than 3mm of seperation if you pull the plug out

 

[JohnW2]

I'm pretty sure you'll acheive DP isolation with more than 3mm of seperation if you pull the plug out

Ah - good point However, although I might try, I'd be a little nervous about trying to safely terminate a 4-core cable in a BS1363 plug.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[RF Lighting]

Do we know what the fourth core is for?

A BS1363 plugtop will acommodate 2.5mm² in each terminal.

 

[riveralt]

Do we know what the fourth core is for?

This heater has four core cable with normal line, neutral and earth plus a black pilot control wire. The black control wire is designed to carry a signal from slot in or wall mounted Dimplex programmers.
If, however a programmer is not being used, the pilot wire should be isolated.
Isolating the cable be achieved in both plug or backbox of course, but for me common sense says use an fcu.

 

[EFLImpudence]

It's a pilot wire for linking to other heaters.

It is very small and would be safe if wrapped with self-amalgamating tape.

 

[JohnW2]

Do we know what the fourth core is for?

The MIs say:

• Pilot Wire Connection
  The BLACK control wire is designed to carry a signal from
  slot in or wall mounted Dimplex programmers. If, however a
  programmer is not being used, the pilot wire should be
  isolated in accordance with the current IEE Wiring
  Regulations.
  IMPORTANT - DO NOT connect the BLACK pilot wire to earth.
  Care should be taken with the installation of the pilot wire(s)
  as when switching to background (set back) they become
  energised at 240V although only at a current of less than
  100mA. In every case a suitable means of isolation must be
  provided for the pilot wire and marked to indicate that two
  sources of supply may be present at the heater.
  Where pilot wires are installed separately from the heater
  final sub-circuit they should be protected, double insulated
  and carry their own integral earth continuity conductor.

A BS1363 plugtop will acommodate 2.5mm² in each terminal.

No argument with that - but that isn't the issue. How/where are you going to terminate the fourth (potentially live) core?

Kind Regards, John.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Anyway, would you be happy that such an arrangement complied with "connection to the fixed wiring of the premises through a suitable connection box"?

Yes.

 

[RF Lighting]

How/where are you going to terminate the fourth (potentially live) core?

Kind Regards, John.

Bit of heat shrink ought to do it.

 

[JohnW2]

It is very small and would be safe if wrapped with self-amalgamating tape.

This is a genuine, not rhetorical, question. Do you think that wrapping with tape would comply with (per MI):

• If, however a programmer is not being used, the pilot wire should be isolated in accordance with the current IEE Wiring Regulations.

I'm not too sure where to looks in the regs for that one!

Kind Regards, John.

 

[EFLImpudence]

It is very small and would be safe if wrapped with self-amalgamating tape.

This is a genuine, not rhetorical, question. Do you think that wrapping with tape would comply with (per MI):

Yes. with S.A.T (and/or heat-shrink if you want) - there will be no copper exposed except the csa.

• If, however a programmer is not being used, the pilot wire should be isolated in accordance with the current IEE Wiring Regulations.

I'm not too sure where to looks in the regs for that one!

Presumably the same as any other conductor in an enclosure (the plug).

I do think you are being over-picky for pickiness' sake.

 

[RF Lighting]

If it's terminated in a plug there will be no issue as to gain access to the exposed end you're going to have to remove the plug so there is no way the wire will be live.

As usual we are going round and round in circles for the sake of it.

Put a plug on it. Job done.

 

[JohnW2]

If it's terminated in a plug there will be no issue as to gain access to the exposed end you're going to have to remove the plug so there is no way the wire will be live.

True, as far as risk to people are concerned, but it's obviously got to be safely insulated from other conductors/live parts within the plug, for those ocacsions when it is plugged in and live.

As usual we are going round and round in circles for the sake of it.

So it seems/looks. This is one of my greatest frustrations about participation in this forum - and, I suppose, one of the things which I'm tiring of a bit. If you knew me 'in private', you would understand how different I actually am from the way I appear here, and how different would be the things I would say (and do) in a non-public context.

The real me is very pragmatic and strongly driven by common sense application of the engineering principles, regardless of what regs, guidelines or MIs might say. So many of the discussions here relate to rigorous compliance with regulations (and in some senses that has to be the case in a forum designed for members of the general public) and I guess that I have 'slid in' to adopting that approach, alien though it is to the real me! In other words, a lot of the discussions end up as intellectual debating exercises, rather than as the provision of sensible pragmatic answers to questions. I am obviously far from being without blame, but it does take more than one to tango!

Kind Regards, John.