Garage in Conservation Area - Principal Elevation

[phykell]

Hi,

I want to build a new garage which will replace an existing one and, ideally, I'd like to do it under Permitted Developmet. However, my property's layout is a bit odd because the house is side-on to the road and the existing garage sits to the front of the property, which I've assumed is the Principal Elevation. However, as the road is to the side, am I right to be able to claim the elevation facing the road is the primary elevation? I've attached an image which will hopefully illustrate the issue better than my description!

My existing garage exceeds the height limit when compared to one built under Permitted Development - can I use this as the limit for my new garage or do I have to stick with the PD limit?

My existing garage is 33 square metres. Ideally, I'd like a bigger garage of at least 50 square metres but while there's no problem with the 50% curtilage limit, is there any limit that applies to a conservation area? I'm sure I've read somewhere that there is but I can't find it on any of the "official" guidance, etc.

Thanks for any advice offered

 

[oldbutnotdead]

If you're in a conservation area there is very little you can do that is pd, depends on how exactly your area has been classified.
You'll almost certainly need pp to demolish the existing and for your larger planned replacement.

AFAIK planning applications are free in such areas so decide what you want, draw it up and on you go. For best chances of approval, look carefully at design- wall, roof, windows, doors- to maintain the general pattern of the area (so if everything else is sandstone blocks and slates your concrete block and corrugated iron roof will probably get knocked back).

 

[^woody^]

The guidance was updated several years ago to deal with principle elevations that do not front a highway and side elevations that do.

The principle elevation is the elevation that is most likely to be the main or front elevation, based on the specific situation. In this case, the one with the front door.

You can't "claim" which is to be the principle elevation. You need it confirmed by your planning authority via an application for a Certificate of Lawful Development.

Work done under PD must conform to the PD criteria.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

A grey area then woody?

 

[^woody^]

Ha. I think it's as colourful as the OPs drawing.

 

[phykell]

If you're in a conservation area there is very little you can do that is pd, depends on how exactly your area has been classified.
You'll almost certainly need pp to demolish the existing and for your larger planned replacement.

AFAIK planning applications are free in such areas so decide what you want, draw it up and on you go. For best chances of approval, look carefully at design- wall, roof, windows, doors- to maintain the general pattern of the area (so if everything else is sandstone blocks and slates your concrete block and corrugated iron roof will probably get knocked back).

Thanks and I take your point about design. The existing garage is an ugly, badly-rendered brick-built structure and it's in the wrong position. If I do need to proceed with a planning application, I'd hope to make the argument that I'll be improving the "openess" by building closer to the boundary. I'll also hope to convince them by going with an oak-framed design using the same roof slates as the current structure (which are the same as the main dwelling). The main dwelling dates from the 18th century so I've already had to be very careful on material choices as that's been renovated already (the garage should be a breeze compared to that!)

 

[phykell]

The guidance was updated several years ago to deal with principle elevations that do not front a highway and side elevations that do.

The principle elevation is the elevation that is most likely to be the main or front elevation, based on the specific situation. In this case, the one with the front door.

You can't "claim" which is to be the principle elevation. You need it confirmed by your planning authority via an application for a Certificate of Lawful Development.

Work done under PD must conform to the PD criteria.

Thanks, I'd read the guidance you cited but that's where it gets even more complicated...

The "front" door, which we use now, was not the original front of the house. Instead, the rear of the house was originally the front - we found that out from historical pictures and confirmed it when we were doing the renovation, so the argument could be made that the *current* front of the house is merely where we enter the property and the garage, as it currently stands, is actually at the (original) back. We reinstated a door where the original front door (now at the "rear") was just to further complicate matters

Confused? I am

 

[^woody^]

It comes down to someone from planning actually looking at the property and determining what is the principle elevation. And to do that you'll need to submit an CLD application.

 

[kingandy2nd]

If your new garage door would be facing the road then it would not be allowed because the driveway isn’t big enough for a car…but I assume your garage door will face the house and use the existing driveway

 

[phykell]

It comes down to someone from planning actually looking at the property and determining what is the principle elevation. And to do that you'll need to submit an CLD application.

They already did that - they reckoned the argument could be made for both. If I recall correctly, they complained about my desire for a balcony on the rear because it was originally the front and they complained about my plans for a porch on the front because it was originally the rear. "Working" with them has been quite the experience

I agree on the CLD and I might just chance my arm by hopefully speaking to someone. However, I know of a local resident who was told that it wasn't their job to tell them or even suggest what they could have; they just look at a proposal and accept/reject it, and that's been my experience too.

 

[^woody^]

They already did that - they reckoned the argument could be made for both

Are you sure?

If a planner makes an assessment as part of CLD application, then it is definitive and final unless appealed, and then that decision is final.

No other person or opinion or story from the bloke up the road matters.

CLD or GTFO. LOL

 

[phykell]

Are you sure?

If a planner makes an assessment as part of CLD application, then it is definitive and final unless appealed, and then that decision is final.

No other person or opinion or story from the bloke up the road matters.

CLD or GTFO. LOL

I'm certain - I've been prevented from fitting a porch at the front and they won't let me fit a balcony to the rear. On a slightly different subject, I believe I'm allowed a porch in accordance with PD as long as it's within the size restrictions (<3sqm) - I haven't tested this yet.

I'll proceed with the CLD approach for the new garage.

 

[jeds]

To apply for a CLD you should be certain that the proposal is in fact lawful - under PD? - otherwise you will be wasting your time. The LPA might think it all looks tickety boo, but if it isn't lawful a CLD will be rejected. On what basis do you think the new garage, in the new position, is PD?

I usually advise clients to go through a simple checklist;
1. maximum eaves height below 2.5m?
2. no verandah?
3. not within listed curtilage?
4. does not include a bedroom?
5. not more than 50% coverage of garden?
6. Not forward of principle elevation?

Actually, there are others but this should be sufficient for now. If you can answer yes to all these then you can go to next stage.

PS, you are right about the porch. As long as you PD rights are intact, you can build up to 3m² on the principle elevation against an existing doorway.

 

[phykell]

To apply for a CLD you should be certain that the proposal is in fact lawful - under PD? - otherwise you will be wasting your time. The LPA might think it all looks tickety boo, but if it isn't lawful a CLD will be rejected. On what basis do you think the new garage, in the new position, is PD?

I usually advise clients to go through a simple checklist;
1. maximum eaves height below 2.5m?
2. no verandah?
3. not within listed curtilage?
4. does not include a bedroom?
5. not more than 50% coverage of garden?
6. Not forward of principle elevation?

Actually, there are others but this should be sufficient for now. If you can answer yes to all these then you can go to next stage.

PS, you are right about the porch. As long as you PD rights are intact, you can build up to 3m² on the principle elevation against an existing doorway.

Thanks - the one I was looking at is specifically designed to conform to PD so it was just an issue of the principal elevation. I am considering an alternative which will require planning permission though, as I need to request permission to demolish my existing garage anyway.