Glow worm boiler with smart centre - complex problems.

[Bakerbloke]

Before glow worm will get involved again I will need to do three things they suggest:

1. Total rewire for system - which I have done and am awaiting invoice which I will need to pay.

2. Buy and install new valve

3. Buy and install new stat.

My electrician recommends not to do 2 and 3 and to his credit he knew before starting the rewiring that it was a pointless exercise. I bought the flexicom boiler, smart wiring centre, climapro and some large radiators for just under £1500 getting a £50 discount by buying everything in one transaction. Looks like that discount disappeared within hours of realising that the CH wasn't coming on.

I'll post updates on progress.

 

[UpgradeME]

Save yourself from further expense by taking the advise on here! Un-screwing three screws for the cartridge could reveal the cause and a simple solution (fitting a link cable) and check as DH suggests for power at the various outputs on the wiring centre!

You sound like you are savvy enough to give that a try!?

 

[matt1e]

Before glow worm will get involved again I will need to do three things they suggest:

1. Total rewire for system - which I have done and am awaiting invoice which I will need to pay.

2. Buy and install new valve

3. Buy and install new stat.

My electrician recommends not to do 2 and 3 and to his credit he knew before starting the rewiring that it was a pointless exercise. I bought the flexicom boiler, smart wiring centre, climapro and some large radiators for just under £1500 getting a £50 discount by buying everything in one transaction. Looks like that discount disappeared within hours of realising that the CH wasn't coming on.

I'll post updates on progress.

Hi sorry for coming in to this thread so late (net connection probs for the last month) but on having a quick read through then my advice is:
listen to your electrican, he's given sound advice up to now.tlere is nothing wrong with the valve (he's already proved it works with an external supply)
and on this system, for testing purposes the cyl stat can be easily taken out of the equation by disconection to create a satisfied condition anyway so dont fit a new one of them yet either

The Glow worm troubleshooter came along and unplugged those wires that lead to the valve - one of them was found to be live when unplugged (can't remember which one) - which shouldn't happen and also one of the eBUS wires was found to have a small residual charge. He recommended to start again with the wiring - install fresh wiring as the existing may have been damaged during plastering etc… - although they haven't found to be faulty he additionally recommended to replace the valve and cylinder stat.

unless he was talking about neutral or earth conections to the valve then based on this I think glowworm needs to employ decent troubleshooters as any one of the other 3 conections can be live regardless of the valve being connected

Save yourself from further expense by taking the advise on here! Un-screwing three screws for the cartridge could reveal the cause and a simple solution (fitting a link cable) and check as DH suggests for power at the various outputs on the wiring centre!

You sound like you are savvy enough to give that a try!?

I concur, this is where I would put my money on
get your sparky to check if you are not sure, he seems to have been the most competent of the pros you have had up to now

Matt

 

[Agile]

Agree, that is a possibility, though the MI's do say: "This appliance will not operate without a link or system controls fitted."

I dont know what you think that means.

But I think that it means that there must be EITHER a link OR system controls JOINING the terminals to create a demand for heat.

Now all my expectation is that the link is in place but no one wants to check it.

The OP has mentioned that HE has bought the boiler and controls. We always advise owners to let the installer buy them. Otherwise the owner can have difficulties if they dont operate as expected.

Tony

 

[dumbrill]

Save yourself from further expense by taking the advise on here! Un-screwing three screws for the cartridge could reveal the cause and a simple solution (fitting a link cable) and check as DH suggests for power at the various outputs on the wiring centre!

You sound like you are savvy enough to give that a try!?

I agree having looked at the Vaillant manual it does look as if the S.30 code, "No heating demand from external controls (clamp 3-4 open)", is indicating the link is missing. Based on what it says then this code could (only?) be generated if the Climapro was calling for heat, but the external controls via pins 3 and 4 were dictating heating off.

Is it also possible that the absence of this link is not inhibiting the HW function because of setting d.25?

Untitled

• dumbrill
• 27 Mar 2011
• 1

If d.25 is set to 1 then perhaps the link is only relevant for CH.

 

[dumbrill]

Is it also possible that the absence of this link is not inhibiting the HW function because of setting d.25?

If d.25 is set to 1 then perhaps the link is only relevant for CH.

Easy to check this. Set d.25 to 0 and the HW will also be inhibited by the link.

 

[UpgradeME]

Is it also possible that the absence of this link is not inhibiting the HW function because of setting d.25?

If d.25 is set to 1 then perhaps the link is only relevant for CH.

Easy to check this. Set d.25 to 0 and the HW will also be inhibited by the link.

d.25 is a status code... i.e. it's read only

 

[picasso]

d.25 is a status code... i.e. it's read only

d codes are diagnostic codes and are changable, are you thinking of s codes ?

 

[UpgradeME]

d.25 is a status code... i.e. it's read only

d codes are diagnostic codes and are changable, are you thinking of s codes ?

No! - Let me re-phrase it... d.25 provides you with a status for diagnostics purposes. It is a read-only code.

On the OP's boiler, the following are the only 1st level "diagnostic codes" that are read/write: d.0, d.1, d.2, d27, d.28 & d.97. All the other d.xx codes provide a 'status' which can be used for diagnostics.

 

[picasso]

gotcha

 

[dumbrill]

OK, that's what the black squares mean next to some of the codes

Looking at it another way it could still suggest that the Ebus can control the HW independently of an external control.

The status of d.8 might also provide a clue as to whether the link is in.

 

[D_Hailsham]

Agree, that is a possibility, though the MI's do say: "This appliance will not operate without a link or system controls fitted."

I don't know what you think that means. But I think that it means that there must be EITHER a link OR system controls JOINING the terminals to create a demand for heat. Now all my expectation is that the link is in place but no one wants to check it.

I agree. I was really replying to this:

1. If there was no link between L and R on the boiler, it would not run at all.

Not even in test mode? - It looks like the OP has been running boiler test modes which may over-ride some 'normal' functionality!?

However I do think UpgradeME is barking up the wrong tree as the OP appears to have only used test mode as a test, the problem occurs in normal mode.

The real problem is that fault finding has been done (by the pros who have visited the OP) in a very haphazard manner: lets try this, lets replace that. There is no logic to any of it.

What's the betting that it turns out to be something very simple, which everyone has overlooked?

 

[picasso]

I got a niggling feeling the stat aint turned up, but we,ll wait and see what happens.

 

[matt1e]

I got a niggling feeling the stat aint turned up, but we,ll wait and see what happens.

I've got a niggling feeling it's A wiring/installation fault
I dont think upgrademe is barking up the wrong tree either, quite the opposite really
Ive just had a sober read through and gather this is a REPLACEMENT boiler on an EXSISTING y-plan with an upgraded wiring centre(smart ebus)
the origonal wiring would have had the valve orange/cyl call conection connected back to the boiler switched live, this connection (back to boiler) should not have been reutilised it should have been disconnected, made safe and the boiler link left in place (if you get where I'm coming from)

Matt

 

[UpgradeME]

However I do think UpgradeME is barking up the wrong tree

Here's my reasoning for still thinking it could be the link cable:

1) The boiler displaying status code S.30, which from another boiler made by the same company, indicates there is no link in place.

2) Poor documentation for the link cable, so could easily be missed.

3) Incorrect documentation for the Climapro wiring / cartridge, showing wiring for only one type of boiler and other missing info in all Glowworm manuals I've read doesn't give me any confidence in statements made regarding the operation with/without the link cable.

4) The statement says "This appliance will not operate without a link or system controls fitted" - There are system controls fitted via eBUS remember!

5) Glowworm "troubleshooters" have been onsite, so there is no telling what has been changed whilst attempting to get it working which may affect other operation i.e. the HW working.

6) The valve doesn't have to physically move to enable the heating of the DHW. Control of the boiler, cylinder stat (& valve) is via eBUS, which could mean "electronically" the HW could work even if that link is not in place.

I would trust the status code on the boiler saying the links missing more than the documentation in this case, however another possibility is that there is still a live/cable connected to terminal R (which is incorrect for eBUS) and somehow only live when there is HW demand.