Heavy ceiling light fitting - what fixing?

[bpowell555]

Mornin all!

When we moved in the previous owner evacuated his dining room chandelier leaving two 1 inch hole and a v short pair of cables through the plaster ceiling rose. Before I post pics hopefully later today, any peeps able to tell me if this sounds familiar or what i'm looking at...

having rooted around with a coat hanger for a while I managed to locate to clips that look like they fold in the middle with holes in the centre. Are these standard ceiling fittings? Will they take a bolt or do they need a butterly nut on the other side - this would be seriously impossibly fiddly to fit... am i in the right ball park? The new chandelier has 5 heavy arms and i don't want it to land on me head

 

[Lectrician]

Sounds like 'butterfly' spring toggle fixings.

Will accept a M4, 5, or 6 threaded bolt. (depending on the size of the spring toggle).

I wouldn't like to support anything too heavy off these fixings - a fiddle bit of metal, and remember, it is only the plasterboard holding that toggle fixing in place!

If it is easy to get above (lift a board, or go in the loft), I would fix a wooden noggin in place (a bit of 4x2 nailed between the joists).

 

[bpowell555]

cheers that's a great answer! would i be right in thinking the plaster rose might make it stronger? given 2 bolts what should be the max safe weight? i figure the light might weigh 10kg?



ps flat roof so access is a problem or i'd be right in there

 

[breezer]

what plaster rose?

as has been said fit a noggin, or fix it to joist

 

[bpowell555]

there's a plaster ceiling rose...

how do I fit a noggin in a flat roof ceiling?

cheers.

 

[Lectrician]

Plaster ceiling roses make fixing difficult - you need long screws, and need to fix to something solid. Dont even think of trying to use expansion fixings on the plaster rose - the fixing still needs to be to the ceiling behind. Your toggle fixings will be ok for most DIY type chandaliers, but for the heavier 'real' types, a decent fixing is required.

 

[plugwash]

hmm with difficultly, the only feasible way would probablly be to cut away a section of ceiling.

one of the nice things about lath and plaster is you can screw stuff directly to the laths without any special grips can't really do that with plasterboard.

 

[securespark]

Weigh your fitting. If it less than 3 Kg, then you should be OK with toggle fixings as long as they go into the ceiling.

After all, standard 2 core 0.75mm² flex has a load bearing weight of 3Kg on it.

 

[bpowell555]

Weigh your fitting. If it less than 3 Kg, then you should be OK with toggle fixings as long as they go into the ceiling.

After all, standard 2 core 0.75mm² flex has a load bearing weight of 3Kg on it.

Weighed it this morning, 3.5kg. The ceiling rose must be stuck onto the plaster board so I should be ok wouldn't you say? (even given the extra load of the rose...)

Cheers lads.

ps. have ordered a pack of ten from screwfix

 

[johnny_t]

Can you do some sort of pull test ?

If I picture correctly what you have got, can you try to get a small length of wood up into the hole that the wires come out of, so that it sits right across the hole in the ceiling void. The get some string round the wood and attach the other end to a set of those spring scales, like fishermen use to weigh fish. Then pull on the scales (not sure if that's the right word, but I can't think of a better term) and if you can get to, say 5kg without any apparent worrying of the plasterboard, then it could give you a bit more confidence

Don't think the presence of the ceiling rose is going to make a difference.

 

[bpowell555]

And if it can't then pull the ceiling down

I get your drift: better to test the ceiling before putting the light up. I may be able to achive the same by fitting the bolts and then attaching weights to those - good idea, will give it a go!

 

[breezer]

ever wondered why things fall down, you put it up today it falls down tomorrow, i would strongly recomend you fix a noggin in place, either that or you all wear hard hats

 

[bpowell555]

ever wondered why things fall down, you put it up today it falls down tomorrow, i would strongly recomend you fix a noggin in place, either that or you all wear hard hats

Yeah but it won't just suddenly pull itself out the plasterboard in one go, like a suction cup coming off glass. At the very least it would start to blister. I think it would be obvious if it was too heavy.

I will root around and try and find something up there I can screw into, but if all else fails I'm going to have a go with just the bolts. As someone above suggested I can always fix the bolts and test them (hang the cat off em?) before fitting the actual light...

Cheers for the advice nonetheless, its well appreciated

 

[Adam_151]

A certain fools and horses episode comes to mind

 

[ban-all-sheds]

http://www.sawnoff.demon.co.uk/A Touch Of Glass.zip