help me out please!!!

[popsiwozere]

Hi there, been scouring this forum for weeks now, some good advice been giving out, anyway here is my question/dilemma to you guys. I have 1 30A ring main serving my flat and 1 30A separate cooker line, I would like to extend the ring main to my kitchen, at present I have 1 double socket entering my kitchen on the ring with what looks like 1 double spur of that then another double spur of the latter (these will be replaced with what i propose below), now according to what i have read on this forum this shouldn't be (and I have had it like this for 7 years) What i propose to do is tap into the ring from this lone socket ( from which i will be doing away with ie: this will only be the join with blanking plate over) go round the room installing 3 single sockets, 1 double socket, and a fcu for 1 light under wall cupboard. The cooker line I would like to wire a hob rating 6.2kw & an oven rating 2.3kw I also have a cooker hood (don't know rating of this) i know that my oven would simply just plug in and probably the cooker hood as well but that would mean introducing another double socket on the ring main (maybe possible) but will have to see what you guys think.

So guys is this all possible
also I know it would be better to install a separate ring for kitchen but not convenient in this case as it is concrete floor and would mean ripping up laminate flooring.
Thanks in advance

 

[Scoby_Beasley]

Have you got a spare "space " in the cu is 1st question ?

 

[popsiwozere]

Yes I have 2 spare fuses

 

[popsiwozere]

Have you got a spare "space " in the cu is 1st question ?

yes got 2 spare fuses

 

[popsiwozere]

C'mon scoby , breezer , ban all sheds, are you all going to leave me in suspenders help me out ,running out of time and starving to death

 

[Scoby_Beasley]

I typed a nice long reply to you then lost it searching for a piccy!! Sadly now off to work so if no one beats me to it hope you'll be o.k with a carry out tonight !!

 

[popsiwozere]

I typed a nice long reply to you then lost it searching for a piccy!! Sadly now off to work so if no one beats me to it hope you'll be o.k with a carry out tonight !!

cheers scoby don't be too long with remedy please, as i think i will need to open an account with local chinese shop, also piling on the pounds he he!

 

[breezer]

i am not home yet, and altough you have 2 spare fuses, is there any fuse holders in the CU to plug them into?

 

[popsiwozere]

i am not home yet, and altough you have 2 spare fuses, is there any fuse holders in the CU to plug them into?

Yes they are plugged in but not getting used at moment

 

[felix]

Your cooker hood is unlikely to consume more than a few hundred watts so put it on a fused connection unit on the ring. The oven can be plugged into a combined cooker switch and 13 amp socket but it could also go on the ring leaving the entire 30 amp radial circuit free for the hob.

Now for the question of a separate kitchen ring. Since you have spare fuseways this would be best, especially if you have power guzzling appliances, such as a tumble drier, in your kitchen. On the other hand I don't think it's essential and I wouldn't really care to tear up my laminate flooring for a non-essential extra ring. Some of the other guys around here might have a more definitive answer.

 

[Scoby_Beasley]

"..............go round the room installing 3 single sockets," if you're putting sockets in, use doubles never singles, you can never have enough sockets don't you know!

Extending your ring main :- crimp if possible but j.b.s will do especially as you will be leaving access.

Regards under unit lighting and extractor, what I did was put a double socket as a spur from my new (kitchen) ring main above my wall units next to where the bridging unit was over the hob/extractor. The transformers for the lights are in this bridging unit as no-one can reach it anyway.
Cooker and hob are on their own circuit connected via a switch into this behind oven housing with just enough cable to pull oven out if required. Our hob and oven are roughly the same power as yours but as I was ripping out the old kitchen I've put in 10mm2 supply cable to the same, as, (a) 6mm2 is close to its limit (c 40 amp) with that amount being drawn if all switched on at once and (b) I'd got c 15m left of 10mm from fitting shower !!

Finally if you switch everything on oven/hob to full your "draw" will be about 37 amp, might need a bigger m.c.b.

N.B. When I started re-doing the kitchen here I dscovered that the "original" kitchen socket was a spur from the front room and there were two more spurs from that !!

 

[popsiwozere]

cheers scoby, regarding larger mcb, my box is the old fuse type and I have read somewhere that you can't buy 40amp fuse wire only 30amp, is this true? also the cable I have on cooker radial is 10mm2 . This set up has been with me for 7 years since I purchased the house and then however long before that and I have never had any problems within that time, with oven , hob, & cooker hood all connected to a cooker switch on the 10mm2 cable with 30amp fuse, so do you suggest I connect oven & hob directly to ccu then 10mm2 between ccu & cooker switch then power to switch? or do i have to put in a 13amp fused connection between the oven and ccu but the hob directly into it? AAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH so much to do so little time.

 

[felix]

Everything makes sense once you realize that a fuse protects the cable that lies beyond it. The 30 amp fuse in your consumer unit is more than adequate for 10mm cable. NB: That means it's SMALL enough, not BIG enough! Confusing, isn't it!

If you've had your hood wire (possibly only three amp rated, six if you're luck) connected directly into the cooker switch then it wasn't protected. If it was plugged into an integral 13 amp socket with the correct fuse in the plug then it was protected. Does this begin to make sense?

Your oven wire is probably only 13 amp stuff so your choices are:

1) Plug it into the cooker switch's integral socket.
2) Plug it into a socket on the ring.
3) Put it on a fused connection unit on the ring.

What you can't do is connect it into the back of the cooker switch because that's on a 30 amp fuse.

The same rules apply to the hood but your fuse, whether it be in a plug or a connection unit, must be small enough for the cable size. Unless your fan came out of a Dyson you should be OK with a 3 amp fuse.

If your consumer unit looks like what I think it looks like then you could have a problem fitting anything bigger than 30 amp fuses. I have a vague recollection that 45 amp fuse carriers were bigger than the rest and the consumer unit had a special holder to take one. The good news is that you don't really need anything bigger than 30 amps. To hedge your bets you should put your oven on the ring and use only low(ish) power gadgets in that integral socket.

 

[Scoby_Beasley]

..... or do i have to put in a 13amp fused connection between the oven and ccu but the hob directly into it? AAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH so much to do so little time.

Ive never had a problem with wiring both hob and oven into the same connection, you'd do it with a free stander anyway.
As felix says your 30amp fuse should be fine, just if you ever turn everything on at full belt at the same time, highly unlikely, things could warm up ! i've done this once, when new hob/oven fitted, never known it to have happened since. The reason for plugging extractor and lights in socket above units is because they are 'above', no buried cables behind tiles etc. etc. apart from mains spur.

"Everything makes sense once you realize that a fuse protects the cable that lies beyond it. The 30 amp fuse in your consumer unit is more than adequate for 10mm cable. NB: That means it's SMALL enough, not BIG enough! Confusing, isn't it!"
Agree felix, you're in the mire if you use a 30 amp fuse on 1mm2 cable but ok with 5 amp on 10mm if thats all it needs to protect.

 

[popsiwozere]

cheers guys, been very helpful the reason i wanted to hook up the oven to the cooker radial was to take some of the heat of my main ring which serves my whole flat now extended into kitchen, looks like i have to make a decision either way as the wife keeps bursting my ear drums everyday, they're sick of me at casualty.