HELP! - Really big problem with HUGE bill!!!!

[marcp]

I shall keep this brief

I have just received a bill for £7,404
yes you read that right....


We moved into an old house 8 years ago - its a big place but there are only 3 of s in it
completely rewired it -
Installed oil heating for CH and hot water and we have a wood burner

we use electricity for the usual things \Tv, fridge , freezer, lights, kettle & 2 computers.
The biggest drain i can see is the dishwasher and washing machine. We dont tumble much
cooker is a calor hob
no electric heating at all

we had a LOT of problems with our power tripping out - would do it sometimes 10 times per day - electricians could never find the problem.

Now we are busy and (with the benefit of hindsight....) we didnt read our bills much and it turns out that we have been on estimated readings since nov 2006. paying 37.50 pcm by ddebit. It just kinda goes away
I cant remember anything about meter readings 3 years ago - (who would)
Now with the latest reading - they say we have used £7952 in 21 months.
Now i am not great at maths bit that means we are using 3610KWH pcm.
Thats more than a usual house uses in a year!!!

I have turned stuff of and on and tried to ID any major leak but it just seems to be incremental.


could i have a faulty meter?
it is now 20 years old

what should i do and how should i tackle british gas?

Are they not a little negligent here?

any suggestions.

 

[Softus]

what should i do

Buy (or rent) and install one of these.

Turn everything off, then on again one at a time, monitoring the usage until you find the cause of the high consumption.

how should i tackle british gas?

Always go for the legs.

Are they not a little negligent here?

In what way?

 

[Adam_151]

Thats certainly a high reading, if it were true it works out as an average power drawof 5kw (you house would be pretty damn warm in summer, unless part of the load was air-conditiong units!)

FWIW, when the local supply authority provide power to a housing estate, they work on an average of 2kw for a four bedroom house with gas fired heating, and thats on an intergration period of half an hour across an estate full of houses. A single house averaged out over a lot longer period of several years should be much lower! I worked ours out a good few years ago at approx 1kw (and that is high!)

So unless you are doing hydroponic gardening in your attic, or have a server room in your back bedroom then its rather high, what you could do is set up an excel spreadsheet, and read the meter at least twice a day and record the values to see what sort of usage its registering (whether it is high constantly, or peaks from time to time), this would be even more usful combined with taking readings from the gadget softus recommended, and put them in a column alongside in your spreadsheet and see if the amount used matches across the meters.

Also AFAIK they are meant to read the matter more than once every 3 years, though you won't ever get them to read it quarterly I don't think, but what you could do, is read it yourself and phone the readings through to them, to get rid of of those bloody estimated bills.

Also consider that the meter might not be at fault... its possible that the guy reading the meters has transposed two digits!

 

[marcp]

I will certainly get one of the gadgets -
what am I looking for? One thing or circuit creating a consistently high draw?
or a mismatch between what is being used and what the meter says?

Can meters be inaccurate in their reading?
I dont really know much about them
- this is an old style with the spinning wheel - last checked in 1992
its a GEC type c11b2aH

the idea of transposed reading some time ago is interesting as it would then mean the mistake is perpetuated across years of estimated readings
how could we ever prove a faulty reading years ago?

I only ever recall them reading our meter once in 10 years.....

 

[Steve]

marcP, what exactly was tripping? If it was an overload device, I'd be very worried about now, since the bill could be correct.

If it was an RCD, I'd be less worried.

Meters are very reliable (theres millions of them in use), but mechanical ones can get inaccurate with age as parts wear. Saying this, there are again, a huge number of them still in use that are 40+ years old.

If, after your investigations, you suspect the meter to be faulty, British Gas are obliged to test it, though if no fault is found, they will charge you for the testing.

The simplest way to check if thigns are going wrong is to turn off everything in the house, look at the meter. If its still spinning, turn off each circuit one by one. When it stops, you have your culprit. (Clue: look on the circuit that was tripping first)

 

[lee786]

contact http://www.energywatch.org.uk/
see what they say ( it couldnt hurt )


few years ago i had a prepayment meter and my power company
tried to charge me £500 cos they hadnt updated the meter to bring it inline with current prices in years dispite coming to read it every 3 months


the company kept demanding the money not matter what
untill i contacted energywatch

all of a sudden the power company wanted to talk lol at this point i lost my cool and at this point they void the bill

i doubt it would ever got sorted if i never got energywatch involved

 

[baldelectrician]

DON'T call the electricity board yet, as they may take away your existing meter

Call a registered electrician - they can install a second meter AFTER the electricity board meter. The meters are around £30 or slightly less

You can now check the readings from this second meter against the first meter (if you use 150kWh then both readings should go up by the same amount)

You should use a competent person for the work, links below

In Scotland:
Individuals regitered;
http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/register/ListAC.asp
Companies
http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/register/SearchCo.asp?T=Construction&ID=2

In England and Wales:
http://www.competentperson.co.uk

 

[dave.m]

Having just looked at my electric readings which I take monthly, the figures that you quoted of
£7952 for 21 months equating to 3610 KWh/month, appear about 10 times higher
Recheck your meter with the reading that they are using because it looks very much like there is a decimal point moved over one place.
360 KWh/month is reasonable so double check the reading.

 

[shotgun]

DON'T call the electricity board yet, as they may take away your existing meter

Stuff that call them and tell them to install a calibrated check meter along side your existing one they have a duty to do it for you if you request it and its free, EDF suggested changing a meter where i was working because it was 11 years old (normally never older than 10 yrs)

they can install a second meter AFTER the electricity board meter. The meters are around £30 or slightly less

Why waste money (see above) £30 for the meter, £ for the tails and blocks, £ for couple hours labour

You can now check the readings from this second meter against the first meter (if you use 150kWh then both readings should go up by the same amount)

You should use a competent person for the work, links below

In Scotland:
Individuals regitered;
http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/register/ListAC.asp
Companies
http://www.sbsa.gov.uk/register/SearchCo.asp?T=Construction&ID=2

In England and Wales:
http://www.competentperson.co.uk

 

[baldelectrician]

I know about all this, but thereis £7000 at stake here and the local electricity board will be judge and jury.

I personlly would prefer to spend £80 or so and get proof prior to getting them out, rather than hope it all turns out OK.

It is better to call them with facts rather than hope they will do things as they should. I am not saying they will do devious or illegal acts but bigger companies have a higher fluff up rate in things like this

 

[marcp]

firstly Id like to say thanks to you all for some really great advice.
As you can imagine since i found out yesterday I have been worried sick

some answers

Steve - we never did discover what the problem was. But it was an RCD.
Our electrician fitted a 2 new proteus boards ( to split it into 2 he reckoned made it less likely to trip - wrong)

It has got a bit better lately though

i am going to do a full shut down this evening to see if i can find a leakage -

Lee
I have checked out energy watch , thanks. They look like they could be a lot of help - especially if the issue is an old one.

They say that any issue can not be backdates more that 2 years -
this thing might have been wrong for 8!
I think i will contact them tomorrow and see what they say


Dave

That is a good point -
the only way we could make sense of the readings is that they think the meter has gone round the clock and caught up again with their lower estimate -
One bill showed 86000 KWH..... in a day


the bills and numbers have been random - I feel so stupid now but the direct debit thing made it 'out of sight out of mind.'
frankly i didn't read them



bald / shotgun

you both sound right!

Having spent an hour and half on hold only to talk to a halfwit
who simply could not grasp the situation and whose only offer of help was to take a credit card number to pay the 7K ( "so it didn't build up!" honestly - i had to laugh) -

I am worried about not collecting AS MUCH info as i can about the situation before handing it over to them as an issue - as bald el said they do not have the best reputation at the moment
However I would like them to rise to their obligations to sort it out

confused by this dilemma

 

[sparkyspike]

Have you had a PSCC test done on the supply? This takes an electrician a couple of minutes and checks the neutral return path to the substation. An intermittent fault on the supply neutral can cause tripping and weird symptoms. It could even spike your supply, so would need to be fixed urgently.

 

[baldelectrician]

A couple of points;

after you mention your telephone call you should really get a decent electrician in to check things out

You could be paying for half the street lighting, or a neighbours immerser

You need to establish 2 things
1. When you unplug everything and turn all your lights and applainces off does your meter stop?
2. The trip thing sounds like an earth leakage. If you have a high current latent leakage to earth (say 1-2Amps) this could cause a bill of the magnitude you are thinking of.

ps do you have a pond with fish?
I went to a chaps house and his pump was costing £500 per year as it was on 24/7.

 

[marcp]

In the morning i will do the 'everything out of its socket and off' test

i will also track down a good electrician -

The guy who rewired was nice and did a good job but he was at a loss to explain the tripping.
I have no idea if he did a PSCC test - dont know what one is...
So I had better find a new one.

No pond - nor dodgy hydroponics
I did a comparison and we have a completely bog standard set of appliances

the only difference is 2 computers and we have about 10 mains halogen spotlights upstairs


Unlikely we are paying for the street as we are in the middle of nowhere and the meter is inside the house

earth leakage sounds scary - because it means we have used the power....

 

[sparkyspike]

PSCC = Prospective short circuit current. (I think!) The test measures the maximum current likely to flow through a live-neutral short circuit, and also the live-neutral impedance of the supply circuit (i.e. the external supply from the main transformer).