High Rise Fire

[motorbiking]

The block is part social housing and part private. Social housing is by definition part funded by the tax payer.

 

[JohnD]

It's important to a neofascist like hawkey to view the fire victims as in some way "different".

Then he can luxuriate in hating and despising them, and create a fantasy where they were guilty of causing their own suffering.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

The block is part social housing and part private. Social housing is by definition part funded by the tax payer.

If that is a response to my comment about Squakeye's post, will you also address Squawkeye's comment about the migrants being housed and clothed?

 

[securespark]

Some good news:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...rawled-hospitals-tazmin-belkadi-a7792121.html

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

Thanks for that SS.
I thought that the police had said, days ago, that all hospitalised people had been identified.
It seems nonsensical to not publish their names in situations like this, when relatives and friends are desperately seeking news of their loved ones.
Edit:

"When we went we noticed that her sibling was a few beds down, no one even knew they were related. Police are not identifying people... they are using protocols for terrorist incidents to manage civil disaster.”
“Casualty Bureau is not providing any response to families missing loved ones, desperate for some feedback.
“They have no access to calls I've made let alone police info. Answering machine service only. No response given.
"We found one and then another a few beds down a few minutes later. No one knew who they were or tried to contact families for identification."

from SS's link.

 

[securespark]

they were guilty of causing their own suffering.

According to the Leader Of Kensington Council, they were. He implied this when he said that the residents did not want the disruption that installing sprinklers would cause.

 

[motorbiking]

There seems to be a lot of politicizing of the fire going on. To me this seems to be, thankfully a rare event that would test any response team to its limits.

I've yet to see any evidence that things would have been different under a different government or council control or with more money spent. The building had recently been renovated and there is no indication that the fire service where unable to fight the fire due to lack of resources. The emergency services seemed to cope very well for this highly unusual event. The issues seem to be the fire safety advice given and potentially the construction or design of the refurb.

The claims of a cover up are crazy. There is a criminal investigation and to allow that to run in parallel there is also a public inquiry. I fully believe both will properly explore lessons which need to be learned and any negligence that needs to be prosecuted.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

I've yet to see any evidence that things would have been different under a different government or council control or with more money spent.

The claims of a cover up are crazy. There is a criminal investigation and to allow that to run in parallel there is also a public inquiry. I fully believe both will properly explore lessons which need to be learned and any negligence that needs to be prosecuted.

Despite previous inquiries recommendations not being enacted?

Continuous austerity cuts over many years leads to cost-cutting exercises, which may have impacted on choice of materials, methodology etc.

 

[JohnD]

Seriously?

Two injured little girls in hospital, unidentified, and only reunited with their uncle because he traipsed round with a description? After all this time?

I'm sure Bernard will be able to explain how this demonstrates competent and efficient work by the authorities.

Maybe they haven't got a notebook and pencil.

 

[bernardgreen]

It seems nonsensical to not publish their names in situations like this, when relatives and friends are desperately seeking news of their loved ones.

I'm sure Bernard will be able to explain how this demonstrates competent and efficient work by the authorities

One was in a coma, the other screaming, unlikely they could talk coherently enough to provide their names. Also it is possible that they had been told to never reveal their names to the authorities no matter what the situation.

Providing descriptions of people in still hospital to the general public opens the possibility of a total stranger using that information to claim an orphan child is their relative. For the police to verify or disprove that claim takes up valuable resources.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

There seems to be a lot of politicizing of the fire going on.

Any disinformation going on?

"When we went we noticed that her sibling was a few beds down, no one even knew they were related. Police are not identifying people... they are using protocols for terrorist incidents to manage civil disaster.”
“Casualty Bureau is not providing any response to families missing loved ones, desperate for some feedback.
“They have no access to calls I've made let alone police info. Answering machine service only. No response given.
"We found one and then another a few beds down a few minutes later. No one knew who they were or tried to contact families for identification."

from SS's link.

 

[JohnD]

"Hello, I'd like to report that my brother, his wife and two daughters are missing. They lived in Grenfell house. Flat x. Descriptions are (. .........)"

"Sorry mate, no idea if we've got any survivors or bodies matching that description. No lists.

Don't bother leaving your number, if anyone turns up we won't bother contacting you."

 

[JohnD]

For the police to verify or disprove that claim takes up valuable resources.

Got more important things to do. How many were guarding Theresa in her worthless photo-op?

Was it 20,000 police cut from the roll by former Home Secretary Theresa May?

 

[motorbiking]

Despite previous inquiries recommendations not being enacted?

Continuous austerity cuts over many years leads to cost-cutting exercises, which may have impacted on choice of materials, methodology etc.

I note you said "may", but you are still making assumptions. What government would get support for making building regulations retrospectively applicable?

On the subject of identification - I have to agree with the other comments, they can't simply publish a list of people and allow anyone access to the information. People need vetting to ensure they are genuine. Remember the 911 attacks? There were huge numbers of fake claims and criminal activities on the back of that.

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

I note you said "may", but you are still making assumptions. What government would get support for making building regulations retrospectively applicable?

On the subject of identification - I have to agree with the other comments, they can't simply publish a list of people and allow anyone access to the information. People need vetting to ensure they are genuine. Remember the 911 attacks? There were huge numbers of fake claims and criminal activities on the back of that.

Not making assumption, asking pertinent questions.
It is not about making 'building regulations retrospectively applicable'. It is about making buildings safe by enacting recommendations. Listening to residents concerns. Ensuring that ongoing fire-prevention advice is being followed, etc.
Ensuring that suppliers advice about installation of materials is followed.
It is difficult to imagine that someone, or several people, involved in the installation/refurbishment did not realise that something was amiss.

On the subject of vetting. Of course suitable and appropriate vetting should take place, but how does the publishing of the names of those survivors in hospital prevent that?