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Hive Heating and Hot water Installation

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by garyh3, 11 Dec 2017.

  1. garyh3

    garyh3

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    Hi Just got Hive 2 and need to install it
    Vokera mynute 35HE system boiler
    HW Tank with a single moterised valve
    Single zone system


    The Thermostat is old and has a live and switch live just seems to switch the valve I think I have a Y Plan with a Valve for either Hot water or Heating and Hotwater.

    The thermostat dosent seem to do much except that.

    I want to just unhook that both ends and put the hive thermostat there.
    The Manual time I will leave and just put it on constant and let hive control the on off.

    There is a plastic junction box in the boiler that is from the 3A Spur that connect the boiler and thermostat from there.

    I found the Live and Switch live for the thermostat in the boiler and also the live from the 3A spur
    Also found the Live and Switch live in the boiler

    So I have Duel channel Connections

    Do I connect

    N - N
    L - L (From the Junction box which connect to 3amp Fused Spur)?
    1 HW Off - No Cable
    2 CH Off - No Cable
    3 HW On - new cable to Brown Cable (Swicthed Live )
    4 Heating On - wire Connection to 2nd Black wire in Boiler Switch Live

    Do I need a heating off connection ?

    So the third pic is the thermostat wires
    black is live
    brown is switched live


    The 1st Pic is the Cable from Jnk Box to the Boiler

    The 2 black cables 1st one is live and send one is switched Live from the timer


    P1060426.JPG P1060425.JPG P1060424.JPG P1060420.JPG P1060419.JPG
     
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  3. stem

    stem

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    Te easiest way is usually to remove the existing programmer and replace it with the Hive. But I don't see a picture of that.
     
  4. garyh3

    garyh3

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    Hi Thanks for Reply unfortunately its built into the boiler

    here are the pics the timer is te back box on the right P1060430.JPG P1060429.JPG P1060428.JPG P1060427.JPG
     
  5. stem

    stem

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    Ah! OK thanks, but in that case sorry, but I don't know enough about the Vokera to help you.

    With an external programmer the terminals are all marked as to what they do and so the function of each wire can be easily identified. Once that's done, advice can given as to the corresponding terminal on the Hive where each one would go.

    Seems odd (to me anyway) that there is only one single timeswitch for both the heating and hot water.

    In your case, it looks like all of the wiring and connections are made inside the boiler, so you will probably need a Vokera expert, or to have someone come to inspect the installation and physically work it out on site. It may not even be suitable for Hive control. Hopefully a Vokera expert will be along shortly to confirm.
     
  6. garyh3

    garyh3

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    No The thermostat controls the hotwater switch. If you turn the dial above 20 it will click and turn on the motorized valve next to the hot water tank. The thermostat dosent seem to do anything else it wont turn on the boiler. You have to use the timer switch on the boiler to turn on the boiler.
    I seem to be only get Hotwater or Hotwater+ heating
     
  7. stem

    stem

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    Yes, exactly that was my point. There is now only one timeswitch for both the heating and and hot water. There is usually a dual channel programmer to allows the hot water to be set to be on at different times to the heating, and this is the case with the Hive, so....
     
  8. garyh3

    garyh3

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    I think the Vokera HE35 has one

    upload_2017-12-11_22-39-21.png
    upload_2017-12-11_22-39-57.png

    upload_2017-12-11_22-40-41.png

    upload_2017-12-11_22-43-9.png
     
  9. stem

    stem

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    OK, so you say you have a 'Y Plan' with a single 3 port valve, and the large diagram you have posted clearly says "Y"-Plan with Vokera 2-Channel programmer, so if that drawing is correct, and represents actually what you have, then you will see in figure 40 a small terminal block connected to an inbuilt programmer which I have copied below.

    no2.JPG

    The markings on the wires (in the top left) correspond to the connections at the Hive Receiver, [You need the dual channel version of it] so would connect to it as follows:

    Wire 'HW off' = Hive terminal (1) 'hot water off'
    Wire 'HW on' = Hive terminal (3) 'hot water on'
    Wire 'CH on' = Hive terminal (4) 'heating on'

    The Hive receiver also needs a 230V supply to power it, this connects to the boilers main N, L & E terminals.

    The 3 wires HW off, HW on & CH on, should be removed from the existing timer and only go to the Hive receiver. However, the 4 wires from the existing programmer will still be live, and so should be kept separate in 4 separate terminals to isolate them anything else.

    Please check carefully to make sure that the wiring in the manual you have posted above does correspond to what you actually have, before proceeding.

    I can't see clearly enough your photo of the existing room thermostat to work out what is going where, it even looks as if it may not be actually connected, and that one or more of the wires has been taken out and put in a separate terminal. If it is working, you can set it to its maximum setting so that it doesn't override the Hive. Don't remove it for now, as you risk leaving the heating wiring open circuit and it won't come on. If you do want to remove it completely and need more help with that please provide details of the thermostat connections (they should be inside the lid, or printed on it somewhere) and what wires are connect to each of the terminals.
     
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  11. garyh3

    garyh3

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    Thanks again for your help Stem

    On the Thermostat
    1 - First Connection is brown which is the switch live on mine.
    3 - second connection is empty
    2 - third connection is Black Live
    Blue is not connected just in a white connect block

    I google the thermostat wiring below IMIT TA.3

    Conection.jpg
     
    Last edited: 12 Dec 2017
  12. garyh3

    garyh3

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    Hi Stem
    Just reading the manual. The 4 Gang connection block in your pic I cannot see it in my boiler, So do I need to put one in and then connect the wires as per diagram and then to the hive ? Also I cannot see any connection from the thermostat to the Boiler (I think they did a botch job) It looks like just a switch for the Valve. ?

    Gary
     
  13. stem

    stem

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    Actually it's from the diagram that you posted, which I assumed applied to your boiler. I just zoomed in on the bit that applied to connecting the Hive. ;)

    As I said before I don't have any knowledge of your boiler. and could only offer my original advice based on your wiring diagram. If your boiler isn't actually like that, then I can't help I'm afraid. Unfortunately photos of wires without any markings doesn't help. It would be a bit like me showing you a photo of a road junction you have never seen before with out any visible sign posting and asking where each road goes.

    However, if you can find the correct wiring diagram for your boiler that represents what you actually have, then I might be able to help.

    The room thermostat is easier, the wires in terminals 1 & 2 should be connected together either at the thermostat, or by removing the two wires from their origin and then linking together where they came from. But you should check that it is actually connected first. Does it work presently? Although this bit is irrelevant at the moment if you can't connect the Hive in the first place.
     
  14. garyh3

    garyh3

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    Hi Stem

    The docs Im posting are from the Vokera 35HE install manual so it should be correct

    I Just want to rip out the Thermsotat and Timer if I can and just use Hive
     
  15. stem

    stem

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    But it doesn't seem to be correct. When I referred to the drawing that you posted from the aforesaid Vokera 35HE install manual, you replied with..
    I didn't think the manual you posted was right for your version of the boiler, because if you remember I queried the fact that there was just what looks like a single timeswitch on the front of yours and not the facility to have separate time control for the heating and hot water. But the title at the top of the drawing from the manual states "with Vokera 2 channel programmer" which is what I would have expected.

    Maybe there have been different models of it produced over the years.
     
  16. garyh3

    garyh3

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    There are 2 timers you can get for this boiler The Vokera 2 Channel is a digital timer or timer.jpg you can use instead of the Analog one.

    Thats the 4 gang connector I think there referring to there is also a connection onto the PCB.
     
  17. stem

    stem

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    That programmer looks more like what I would expect to find. A programmer with 2 channels, one for the heating and one for the hot water. The single channel timeswitch would probably be meant for a system that only has only one use, such as just heating, without a hot water system connected.

    The bottom line is that you will need to find the following 3 wires that have to go to the Hive for it to work.

    'HW off'
    'HW on'
    'CH on'

    They may still go to the single channel timeswitch that you have, but can you find them by tracing them back from the other end. For example they should be connected as follows:

    The 'HW off' should go to the 3 port motorised valve's grey wire, so should be fairly easily traceable back from that. (The grey wire will also be connected to the cylinder thermostat satisfied or NC terminal don't confuse it with that)

    The 'HW on' should go to the cylinder thermostat's common, or 'C' terminal

    The 'CH on' should go to the room thermostat terminal 1 as per your photo

    If you can find these three wires, then you have a chance.
     

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