House Let - PAT test

[fastJedi]

Circa 1985 house with original wiring / conventional fused consumer unit.

The letting agent has just sent an electrician round to test. He says the electric shower circuit must have an RCD, under no circumstances should the tennent use the shower till its done ... and he wants £200 to do it.

1. Yes I know it makes sense .... But he should be working to the regs and they don't say you need one????

2. Assuming there are no other issues he would simply connect a shower RCD in series between the existing consumer unit fused cct and the shower?

3. £40 worth of parts and an hours labour = £200

 

[Chri5]

Hold on- where in the reg does it say an RCD is not required to a shower?

Your asking a spark to sign off an installation as safe at today's date, not 20 years ago.

So your quite prepared to profit as a landlord and grumble over £200 to make something safe and get the installation signed off and certified?

As for the cost, add in the guys time to get the materials, do the work, test and certify, travel to and from, training, being a member of a recognise scheme (with hefty subscription charges) and it not so far away from being 'about' right.

Sorry mate, but your make good money on your property rental and your moaning about a cost that drops straight through the books as valid service / mtce cost.

Did you train for 5 years, do you have an ever changing sea of regulations, do you have to spend hundreds a year on test equipment, hundreds more on training and subscription charges to a scheme provider?

Well if you did, you would expect some return on the 'investment'?

No doubt your a plastic surgeon who spent 10 years in training and do facial rebuilds for £25 a go

 

[Chri5]

Its a Periodic Inspection Report NOT a Periodic Appliance Test

 

[larco]

interesting topic.

We've had the house next door bought and immediately rented out to the polski brigade.
I know for a fact that no gas inspection or electric inspetcion was carried out prior to letting the house.

How can I pursue this? Anyone I can write to officially?

 

[Chri5]

If your feeling mean report them to the Council, regs for multiple occupancy dwellings need to have been complied with.

Think full electrical and gas certs, fire detection to each occupied room, fire doors throughout and various other elements.

Councils are more than happy to fine Landlords £5k+ for failing to bring dwelling up to scratch for MOD. The rules changed about 15 months ago and the cooling off / warning period is past the 'do by date'.

 

[Spark123]

Under the 16th edition regulations an RCD was not required to be fitted to an electric shower. Only when the manufacturer of the shower says that one be fitted then one must be fitted. It is however, considered good practice between electricians to fit RCD protection to shower circuits given the increased risk and the 17th edition regulations which we will all be working to by the 1st July requires all circuits in a bathroom to be 30mA RCD protected.

 

[oharaf]

You get some good landlords and some bad!

Some see their property as a long term investment and the quality of their dwelling as a reflection of themselves.

Paying out £200 to increase the safety of your tenants and to bring part of your property up to date with current regs, is nothing!!

What if you had left it / or done the work yourself and then one night the tenants child had got in the shower and been badly injured or killed because you had winged about £200 - Sleep at night? I'd hope not!!

Pay the expert, have piece of mind.

You'll get no sympathy here

 

[kevnurse]

larco,

I know for a fact that no gas inspection or electric inspetcion was carried out prior to letting the house.

How can I pursue this? Anyone I can write to officially?

Its none of your business. The law is there to protect the tenant, not the next door neighbours. If the law was there to protect the neighbours, all householders would be subject to annual testing.

If you are worried about a gas explosion damaging your property, don't forget to ask the neighbours on the other side if they have had their gas checked as well. Have you had your's checked?

And, while we are on the subject of neighbours, what relevance is the ethnicity of the tenants ("polski brigade") in this discussion about the landlord's responsibilities?

 

[oharaf]

Here here Kevnurse

 

[kevnurse]

Chri5,

regs for multiple occupancy dwellings need to have been complied with.

Think full electrical and gas certs, fire detection to each occupied room, fire doors throughout and various other elements.

Councils are more than happy to fine Landlords £5k+ for failing to bring dwelling up to scratch for MOD. The rules changed about 15 months ago and the cooling off / warning period is past the 'do by date'.

While you are quite correct about the regs, you are assuming that the new neighbours are using the house under HMO/MOD status. Its quite possible that only one person, or couple, plus one other tenant signed the tenancy contract, thereby avoiding HMO regs. They might be breaching the tenancy contract, with respect to the number of occupiers, but thats a civil matter between the landlord and the tenant(s).

Also, I would be very surprised if the local council took legal steps as their first action against a new tenancy, which might be the case, for all we know.

 

[Chri5]

I'm just stating what I know about HMO / MOD houses. Think there's a requirement for emergency lighting.

In North London there's 1000's of bed sit dumps, none of which work inside the regulations and all should do so.

If a 3 bed house is being used as a 3 bed that's fine, but as you know some Landlords will use a illegal attic conversion and all the reception rooms. So a 3 bed house which should have 3-4 occupants becomes a 6 bed house with 12 occupants.

At what point should HMO become forced?

As for the identity of the tennants it does seem that the Euro arrivals are happy to take on cheap, sub standard accomodation. More so when they sublet and have 12 in a house, with only 3 on the books and the rest are 'mates' just staying over for 6 months.

 

[nickblake]

hehehe love it the big can of worms when you rent a property you open it,, any let properties ,that provide appliances must ensure they are electrically safe ,,hence the pat test ,, the installation must be safe ,,hence the periodic inspection ,,although 16 th addition regs state you dont have to have a RCD for a shower ,i does state the disconnection time has to be 0.4 seconds and the only way of insuring that is an RCD , also would like to point out that the time between inspections ,, although its a domestic property as its being let it now becomes commercial so inspection time are reduced from 10 years to 5 years ,and now the crunch ,,or change of tenant ,,and that depends on the condition and age of the installation !!! and as from 1st July 17 edition comes in every circuit will be rcd protected with seperate rcds for the fire alarm fun fun fun eh

 

[tim west]

Its a Periodic Inspection Report NOT a Periodic Appliance Test

Portable Appliance Test The OP should change the title of this thread accordingly as it is misleading

 

[Spark123]

although 16 th addition regs state you dont have to have a RCD for a shower ,i does state the disconnection time has to be 0.4 seconds and the only way of insuring that is an RCD

Which regulation in the current 16th edition of the regs says that a shower circuit must disconnect in 0.4s? Where in the regs does it state the only way of insuring a 0.4s disconnection is by using an RCD? Why can't an overcurrent protective device be used to provide a 0.4s disconnection where required?

 

[securespark]

Fixed equipment = 5s.

0/10. SEE ME!