How to connect a shaver socket to a light circuit?

[jgreer]

I recently decided to install a UK bathroom rated shaver socket in my bathroom. I purchased the socket and 1mm sq. two core and earth cable for the job. I want the shaver socket powered even when the lights are switched off

I connected the cables to the shaver unit and mounted it into the wall with no problem (brown to L and blue to N and earth to earth). I ran the cable to the pull-string light switch in the bathroom. However, when I got ready to connect to the lighting circuit, I quickly became confused.

According to my trusty collins DIY book, it states:

"You can wire a shaver socket from a junction box on an earthed lighting circuit or from a fused connection unit, fitted with a 3amp fuse, on a ring circuit spur."

Run 1mm sq. two-core-and-earth cable from the connection unit to the shaver socket; then connect the conductors: red to L and black to N(1)."

I thought the pull-string switch was a junction box as well. Am I wrong? If so, do I need to install a junction box? My flat has cement ceiling and lighting circuit is run through embedded metal conduits. I don't see a junction box anywhere.

Also, all images in my books show cables in the pull-string switch as standard (red, black, and earth or brown, blue, and earth), however, on my switch, there are only two red cables and an earth! I suppose that makes sense of the switch is just breaking the live wire connection.

Either way, I'm confused. How am I supposed to get power to this thing?

It may also be worth mentioning that the consumer unit is just centimeters away. Perhaps I could just pop it straight into a new fuse?
All advice welcome

Here's a link to a photo of my situation. Maybe this will clarify things.
http://groups.msn.com/St-KatherinesDocksFlatRefurbish/electricity.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=23[/url]

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I thought the pull-string switch was a junction box as well. Am I wrong?

Yes.

If so, do I need to install a junction box?

Yes.

My flat has cement ceiling and lighting circuit is run through embedded metal conduits.

That's going to make things very difficult. What are the floors like? Can you easily get access under them to a socket circuit?

I don't see a junction box anywhere.

There may well not be any.

Also, all images in my books show cables in the pull-string switch as standard (red, black, and earth or brown, blue, and earth), however, on my switch, there are only two red cables and an earth! I suppose that makes sense of the switch is just breaking the live wire connection.

That's what light switches always do. Usually they are wired with regular cable, hence red/black or brown/blue, but occasionally red/red or brown/brown is used.

Either way, I'm confused. How am I supposed to get power to this thing?

With the wiring in conduit embedded in cement ceilings, it would be a great deal of hard and messy work to get a supply from there, and if by chance the conduit is providing the earth you'd have even more problems to deal with. I'd say that route is out.

Which only leaves a socket circuit from under the floor.

It may also be worth mentioning that the consumer unit is just centimeters away.

You've got the CU in your bathroom?

 

[Panjandrum]

It may also be worth mentioning that the consumer unit is just centimeters away.

You've got the CU in your bathroom?

Well it might be 2,000 centimetres away at the other end of the (very big) house - or of course on the other side of the wall

 

[jgreer]

My consumer unit is contained within a wall which divides my bathroom from the hallway. The CU is mounted in this wall but faces the hallway.

The light switch is on the ceiling of the bathroom, but just next to this wall. I could run this cable into the CU, right? Sounds like the junction box option is out of the question.

Floor is cement too. Gotta love it!
_______________________
moderator

jgreer, please note 10a

Thanks, Moderator. I'll use the edit.

 

[plugwash]

yes you can run direct to the CU. either connect it to its own 6A breaker or to the breaker for the lighting cuircuit that serves the bathroom.

if your CU is a split load remember to put the neutral in the correct neutral bar.

EDIT: i typed two when i mean to

 

[bathjobby]

I have to ask, is it worth it. If the appliances (shaver, toothbrush, etc) you want to use in there are of the rechargable variety, then it doesn't sound like it is worth the hassle. Just charge them elsewhere (1 or 2 times a month !) and take them in there to use.

 

[jgreer]

Here's a link to a photo of my situation. Maybe this will clarify things.

http://groups.msn.com/St-KatherinesDocksFlatRefurbish/electricity.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=23

 

[mapj1]

Hmm, looks best to go back to the CU , and assuming you cant re-use the conduit to the light fitting (where the supply will be) perhaps in square mini-trunking the corner between wall and cieling. you could then put coving over it if you wanted to lose the sight of the trunking.
(the switch almost certainly only loops though the fitting.)

 

[jgreer]

Yes Mapj1,

I plan to put in recessed lighting by adding a false ceiling the length of the bathroom. namely from the wall the CU is on to the opposite wall. It just won't extend width wise to cover the shelve nor the bath on the left.

Question: Someone here mentioned patching the cable into the existing lighting circuit via the consumer unit.

Can someone tell me in elementary steps how I would go about doing that? Can I use 1mm sq. cable or will I need to use a junction box to go to a 2.5mm cable? How would I do it, exactly?

 

[Big_Spark]

If yopu have to ask that question, you should not be messing with your consumer unit.

Shaver Lights and sockets can be run directly from the lighting circuit, if you are adding a false cieling with recessed lights, then simply run an extra permanent live feed to the shaver light from this circuit.

 

[jgreer]

If yopu have to ask that question, you should not be messing with your consumer unit.

I'll have to politely disagree here. This forum is for asking questions and getting answers. I do understand how a consumer unit works. Having the curiosity to ask is not adequate grounds for not doing something. I don't want to break any regs, though. Hense, the questions.

Questions I have are generated from other comments here. As you can see from the photo link, running the cable to the CU would be a very easy job right now, especially with the wall in progress, no damage is done to the room.

Plugwash recommended I go straight to the CU. This seems more and more attractive option, especially if goes onto the existing breaker for the lighting circuit.

Can I connect the 1mm sq. cable I have wired to the shaver socket straight to the CU? Or do I need to use 2.5 mm? I think I can because the existing connections to the CU's lighting circuit are much smaller than the ring... 1mm?

Shaver Lights and sockets can be run directly from the lighting circuit, if you are adding a false cieling with recessed lights, then simply run an extra permanent live feed to the shaver light from this circuit.

If i did this, wouldn't the live feed only have current when the lights were also on? This is not what I want. I want power regardless of if the lights are on or off. Any suggestions or good links?

 

[plugwash]

yes if you are going to a 6A breaker (either a seperate one of the one for your existing lighting cuircuit) then your 1mm is fine

 

[Steve]

Run your piece of 1.0mm t+e from the shaver socket straight back to the consumer unit, and connect the live to the same 6 Amp MCB as the lighting circuit in that room. Then you should have 2 lives to the same MCB. Connect the neutral to the neutral bar, and the earth to the earth bar. job done. Dont forget to turn off the main switch before you start.

 

[Big_Spark]

Jgreer, I beg to differ on your competence, but what the hell.

Regarding the shaverlight/shaver socket, your lighting circuit will have a permanent live/neutral pair, this is what the shaver unit connects too, not the switched live from the switch.

I do not agree with taking the supply back to the consumer unit as it could potentially introduce damgers that would not exist with only a single circuit in the bathroom.

 

[mapj1]

I do not agree with taking the supply back to the consumer unit as it could potentially introduce damgers that would not exist with only a single circuit in the bathroom

So., as advised, use the same MCB, as the one that feeds the bath lighting circuit, and you will have 1mm two reds sharing that MCB, two 1mm blacks sharing the neutral and two earths... you get the idea.
I see no problem with such an approach. leave enough slack that can be pulled in for a remake of the ends in case it is ever needed, future generations will thank you for that.
- it IS better if it all goes off together from the same MCB - its what people expect.