I was considering Intergas for a boiler replacement but I think I’ll have to give them a miss.

[The Baker]

If you wait until the summer arrives and installers are less stressed you may find it easier to get things sorted.

One advantage of buying a new "system boiler" is that comes complete with a new Erp pump which uses less electricity than a standard pump, and is included in the 5+ years warentee.

Tim

 

[transam]

I had a ferroli combi and had problem after problem... about 8 years ago and it was a pain in the ass, decided enough was enough and spent hours looking at reviews ,least problems after care and all other info I could find and my decision was a worcester bosch greenstar 28i and get it serviced every year and i am more than happy with it. I would highly recommend these to anybody wishing to renew their boiler

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4 year old WB (at the time) seen 14 other such examples

 

[gasbanni]

And wocester Bosch?

Just playing devils advocate - don't the higher end Ideal now come with a 7 or 10 yr warranty as long as you have it serviced annually?

They do, but you'll need that warranty if you choose a Worcester bosh. They double as showers when the plastic hydroblocks pin hole.


The local gas safe inspector said to me " Worceter bosch are living off a reputation they got 25 years ago "

 

[gasbanni]

You just need a system boiler, when it comes to heat only or a system boiler go for a baxi. That's what I do .....no problems simple and reliable.

 

[SirGalahad]

Looks like there is no great boiler manufacturers left. Shame my dad had an old back boiler. Ran for 30 years no problem.

 

[bernardgreen]

Ran for 30 years no problem.

45 year old floor standing boiler still in use, installed by a friend and now his son owns the house. Probably only has two moving parts ( inside the gas valve. )

Looks like there is no great boiler manufacturers left.

I think there are and they sell on reputation and recommendations. The brands that are well known to the public seem to be the poor quality ones whose makers advertise to the general public and / or use accredited installers to promote their products

 

[SirGalahad]

45 year old floor standing boiler still in use, installed by a friend and now his son owns the house. Probably only has two moving parts ( inside the gas valve. )



I think there are and they sell on reputation and recommendations. The brands that are well known to the public seem to be the poor quality ones whose makers advertise to the general public and / or use accredited installers to promote their products

Well as a member of the general public I asked a few installers, they each had their own opinions.

In the end I went with the one I got the longest guarantee and annual service contract.

I was only ever recommended Worcester, Vaillant or Ideal.

 

[transam]

Looks like there is no great boiler manufacturers left. Shame my dad had an old back boiler. Ran for 30 years no problem.

reliability (30 years ) is down to the simplicity of the boiler (?) lump of cast iron with a gas valve fitted tends to give u reliability.

scroll on to 2018 , highly efficient state of the art boilers and as a rule of thumb , reliability is down the toilet ?? but on the plus side it creates work

 

[bernardgreen]

reliability is down the toilet ?? but on the plus side it creates work

and income for the manufacturers / importers from the sale of ( over priced ) spare parts.

 

[transam]

and income for the manufacturers / importers from the sale of ( over priced ) spare parts.

yep that is for sure .

Some older boilers , combis , systems boilers , will be beyond economical repair or may be un-reparable because of a circulating pump that is no longer available.

Save the planet boilers ??? being repaired by armies of service engineers charging around the UK in diesel vans 24/7

About to rip out a 40 year boiler in a school and replace it with state of the art boilers that will last ?? what ?? 10 years ??? at best may be ??

Thousands of miles of plastic pipe being installed on a yearly basis all reliant on a rubber O ring to prevent a disaster

 

[SirGalahad]

Not sure if this is true. My old gas man (bless him he's retired) said most of these new combi boiler manufacturers expect to make as much as the initial sale of the boiler in parts replacement costs. That's where the margins are, selling the boiler at a small profit and then take it in with spare part costs.

 

[SirGalahad]

yep that is for sure .

Some older boilers , combis , systems boilers , will be beyond economical repair or may be un-reparable because of a circulating pump that is no longer available.

Save the planet boilers ??? being repaired by armies of service engineers charging around the UK in diesel vans 24/7

About to rip out a 40 year boiler in a school and replace it with state of the art boilers that will last ?? what ?? 10 years ??? at best may be ??

Thousands of miles of plastic pipe being installed on a yearly basis all reliant on a rubber O ring to prevent a disaster

You have highlighted a problem of externalities. You make the point that though the boilers efficiency has increased the reliability has not. When you factor in repair costs what's then the overall efficiency?

This is why in government spending and budgets you need to consider externalities. You may cut back in one area but that may raise costs elsewhere leaving you possibly worse off than before the cuts.

 

[bernardgreen]

About ten years ago I got involved with the repair of a friend's boiler. Intermittant fault which the service engineer said was due to the PCB which he changed and took away the old one. Another fault occured soon after that and a second replacement PCB was fitted. This time the old PCB was not taken away and I had a look at it. Build standard was very poor. The faults on the boiler were due to failed joints on the PCB where pins in the connectors to the wiring loom were soldered into the PCB. To make PCB assembly easier the holes in the PCBs were over size. Instead of the pin being a tight fit and hence mechanically fixed into the board the pin was held in place only by the solder. Heat cycling and vibration resulted in annular cracking of the solder and thus loss of electrical connection between the pin and the copper pad of the PCB.

I took the matter up with the boiler manufacturer and they agreed this mode of failure had been identified as a quality problem and the company who manufactured the PCB had been told to improve them. The outcome was that the wiring loom for the boiler was soldered directly to the new PCB and all new PCBs came with the loom attached, the old loom was removed from the boiler and discarded The new PCB also had anti vibration clamps to secure the loom and prevent the joints being subjected to vibration from the loom.

I also became aware of the cost of the PCB to the boiler manufacturer which was high compared to the ( estimated ) cost of making the PCB. Then there was the cost to the installer of the PCB as a spare part from the manufacturer. Quite a bit of profit to all involved. Which probably explained why some repairers would resolder the joints on PCBs they had removed from faulty boilers and then charge the full price when using them to repair other boilers.

The manufacturers did supply free of charge a new PCB which was installed and as far as I know is still working ( the friend moved about 3 years ago )

This relates to a heavy component on a PCB but the fault relating to pins in oversized holes is the same type of fractured solder joint

 

[Notch7]

Not sure if this is true. My old gas man (bless him he's retired) said most of these new combi boiler manufacturers expect to make as much as the initial sale of the boiler in parts replacement costs. That's where the margins are, selling the boiler at a small profit and then take it in with spare part costs.

Its a sad reflection of the current culture of consumer marketing that seems to be so prevalent across so many sectors.

Finance: mortgages are sold on low interest rates but the hidden cost is arrangement fees.

Insurance: Customer loyalty is penalised, new customers are given cheapest prices.

Energy: as above.

Food shopping: buy 2 for £5.00 buy 1 for £3.50.........real price for 1 is £2.50

 

[SirGalahad]

Its a sad reflection of the current culture of consumer marketing that seems to be so prevalent across so many sectors.

Finance: mortgages are sold on low interest rates but the hidden cost is arrangement fees.

Insurance: Customer loyalty is penalised, new customers are given cheapest prices.

Energy: as above.

Food shopping: buy 2 for £5.00 buy 1 for £3.50.........real price for 1 is £2.50

But why do you think this happens? Whats the pressure for these companies to act in such a way?