ideal vogue or intergas combi?

[Gasguru]

My merchant and NONE of the other merchants round here stock any spares or service items for Intergas....that's a problem for me and customers. Next day delivery is no use on a Friday afternoon breakdown.

Given the manufacturer cost price of boiler components it would cost Intergas peanuts to have merchants stock their spares...but they're a typical small outfit that just don't get it...and never will. For that reason I will never recommend them.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Not been a problem for me in ten years, but admittedly I stock some parts.

Spares is something being looked into early next year. . But to be fair all the current HRE's will be under warranty still anyway.

 

[SilentDancer]

So you think a 3% variance in SAP is meaningful?

The one piece HEX is nothing like Ferroli, Wooshitter Botch, Ideal and Potterton's efforts.

I think you will find any manufacturer will reserve the right to void the warranty is scale is found.


Like I said, a giannoni type hex, from a cold start will give similar reaction times.


Now, try Googling something sensible to use as an argument.

I think that the fact that the Intergas is less efficient for heating and hot water is very relevant given the outlandish claims that some have made for how efficient the boiler is.

Major manufacturers have moved away from one piece hex combis due to problems with scale and poor performance.

Yes most manufacturers would probably void the warranty over scale being found but it would be found in the plate heat exchanger which is a relatively simple and inexpensive repair. With an Intergas it would mean a new boiler.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Why would it mean a new boiler?


Send me your address and I'll get a bigger shovel sent.


New boiler?

 

[SilentDancer]

Why would it mean a new boiler?


Send me your address and I'll get a bigger shovel sent.


New boiler?

OK you could replace the hex but I'd want it replaced with something that didn't scale up so easily.

 

[Tibbot]

I like Intergas even with the shortcomings already mentioned. But there are two inescapable facts that make them hard for me to sell.
At nearly £1K cost for a 28kW combi that my customers have never heard of, it means I have to fit it for less to stand a chance of an order. Secondly, the DHW flow rate from the same is almost matched by the smaller 24kW versions of budget combis costing me under £500 (half the price).

 

[Dan Robinson]

Why would it mean a new boiler?


Send me your address and I'll get a bigger shovel sent.


New boiler?

OK you could replace the hex but I'd want it replaced with something that didn't scale up so easily.

Jesus.


How about descaling it?

Then setting it up properly so that it didn't happen again.



However I have had to change the HEX on an old HE variant. Much quicker than having to do so on a Vaillant or Ideal.


When you quiz your average home owner on boiler brand awareness, most know only marginally less than Silent Dancer, so doesn't really lose much of a problem. . Flow rate has never been an issue unless converting from a gravity system, and the customer hasn't grasped the basics of instant water heaters.





Replace the HEX?



Oh deary me

 

[Dan Robinson]

Oh, Tibbot, was it you that mentioned TB008 and the offset flue? (adults talk here Silent Dancer run along) . I mentioned it to IGUK and they class it has part of the boiler assay, and not an issue, much like telescopic flues.


They also don't have an issue with expanding foam if that's your bag.



Just repeating what I was told.

 

[Dan Robinson]

The SAP hot water efficiency for an Intergas is between 72.1% and 74.4%. For the Ideal Vogue it is between 76.4% and 76.7%. The difference in the efficiency will be down to the fact that the Intergas has a one piece heat exchanger. [/u]

Are these the latest figures? . Next you'll be telling us sedbuk is a useful document too?

You know. . The one where at one point the difference between two boilers in adjacent brackets was smaller than the margin of error.


Which? Magazine is more useful ffs.

 

[cypher007]

thanks all, especially Dan.

think my parents, and probably me later on (albeit a system boiler), are gonna go intergas.

I like the look of the internals, uncomplicated, unlike the vogue which looks like a optimus prime blown up into pieces.

there old swiftflow must have been running the current hex for over 12 years and still ran hot water until it packed up.

that said is it worth fitting a combi mate or similar poly dosing system?

 

[Dan Robinson]

A combi mate is about the easiest way of getting the water to not be an issue.

Electronic or magnetic devices are snake oil.

Remember these boilers are designed for Holland were weather compensation is standard fayre. . The installer needs to understand the various in and outs of the product. . But if he is trained and knows his products this shouldn't be an issue either.

 

[Tibbot]

Oh, Tibbot, was it you that mentioned TB008 and the offset flue? (adults talk here Silent Dancer run along) . I mentioned it to IGUK and they class it has part of the boiler assay, and not an issue, much like telescopic flues.

You've explained before how they get over it but no-one can convince me that they meant to design an open vent boiler where you have to divert the flue because it's path interferes with the F/R connections.

Anyway my point on this thread is that IG want too much money for the combi models. As an example a Vokera compact 25 inc flue is £399+VAT or less, gives over 10l/min, Grundfos pump, and the brand has been here since 1981. It's not as good, the IG is worth more, but not twice more.

 

[Dan Robinson]

no-one can convince me that they meant to design an open vent boiler where you have to divert the flue because it's path interferes with the F/R connections.

Thought I had done already.


There is no such thing as an OV boiler in Holland. . Easier to supply a. 45 degree bend than produce an entirely different boiler for a tiny market.


How many Vaillant 4 series are sold in Europe?




Ironically though, the new boiler heading or way will have a centre exit flue, so perhaps the offset will be a thing of the past?

 

[Tibbot]

Yes Dan, I get tired of being told by manufacturers what they do in Europe. They want to sell here then they should make what we want.

 

[Dan Robinson]

What was wrong with the bend?