ideal vogue or intergas combi?

[cypher007]

A combi mate is about the easiest way of getting the water to not be an issue.

Electronic or magnetic devices are snake oil.

Remember these boilers are designed for Holland were weather compensation is standard fayre. . The installer needs to understand the various in and outs of the product. . But if he is trained and knows his products this shouldn't be an issue either.

hes an intergas platinum installer, so fingers crossed he knows how to commission properly. I have had my faith in trades dented more than once when it dawns on me I know more than they do.

I did wonder why an intergas installer would recommend the vogue. I can only assume its because they fix it within the 10 year period not him.

 

[Dan Robinson]

That's assuming they honour the 10 year warranty.

To be fair to Ideal, they have addressed a lot of the problems that afflicted them a few years ago. But not enough to make up for a decade of shyte service and products IMHO.

 

[SilentDancer]

The SAP hot water efficiency for an Intergas is between 72.1% and 74.4%. For the Ideal Vogue it is between 76.4% and 76.7%. The difference in the efficiency will be down to the fact that the Intergas has a one piece heat exchanger. [/u]

Are these the latest figures? . Next you'll be telling us sedbuk is a useful document too?

You know. . The one where at one point the difference between two boilers in adjacent brackets was smaller than the margin of error.


Which? Magazine is more useful ffs.

You have tried to make out that an Intergas boiler is a super efficient state of the art machine. It is nothing of the sort. It has an outmoded design that everyone else packed in making and uses cheap components. In the Netherlands Intergas are sold as a cheap boiler for housing contracts.

I don't see Intergas scoring highly in the Which report.

 

[Dan Robinson]

All I have done is blow every one of your points out of the water.

Contract sales is all that kept Ideal afloat during their Isar years.

The Vague only came about once they ponced a load of Vaillant people.



You obviously have NOTHING of an understanding of how the HEX works in an Intergas.


Now, where is that barrel of fish?




Edit.



You might want to read up on Which? Magazine methodology and how they get their results.

 

[transam]

D.R has put in loads of intergas boilers & the Atmos variant (made bny intergas)

he knows em inside out & knows what he's talking about only 4 moving pts

if we all started installing em the repair market would take a big hit
(may be?)

think BMW (some car maker any way) were involved in the heat exc design ?

Probably one of the very few boilers on the market ? (only ?) that are system
/dirt friendly ???????

 

[transam]

Which magazine


dead beats & no hoper's

would'nt know there backside from a pineapple


imho any way

same as checa trde imho

 

[Dan Robinson]

 

[Biggles..]

To be fair to him Dan your just being the big bully like an overprotective mother hen!

The points raised are actually quite valid, plate heat transfer is more efficient, a solid block does take longer to heat than that of a conventional gio heat exchanger from cold, a block struggles to regulate temp more than a plate, struggles with scale, etc etc.
Not even mentioned things like hot slug yet?

We've got one installed that is a pain in the aris on hot water during heating season, if you run the tap you get 70+deg water, it takes over 5mins to cool down to the set time of 45degs, wasting in excess of 60litres of water, it then overshoots by upto 10degs because of poor hot water control.
Don't even start by using the "I turn down the flow temp or fit WC" bullshit.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Not had any of those problems with our installs.

But you do have a habit of dropping yours

Working with a wooshitter Botch today will time the cold heat up. But then most modern boilers have preheat do they not?


Looked at that flight place this morning.... Looks cool. I might be a bit on the large side for the flying bit though

 

[SilentDancer]

To be fair to him Dan your just being the big bully like an overprotective mother hen!

The points raised are actually quite valid, plate heat transfer is more efficient, a solid block does take longer to heat than that of a conventional gio heat exchanger from cold, a block struggles to regulate temp more than a plate, struggles with scale, etc etc.
Not even mentioned things like hot slug yet?

We've got one installed that is a pain in the aris on hot water during heating season, if you run the tap you get 70+deg water, it takes over 5mins to cool down to the set time of 45degs, wasting in excess of 60litres of water, it then overshoots by upto 10degs because of poor hot water control.
Don't even start by using the "I turn down the flow temp or fit WC" bulls**t.

Hot water temp spikes are another issue with the outmoded Intergas hex. With the max ch flow temp setting of 90℃ and a typical 11℃ delta on an old heat system the DHW in the hex will heat up into the 80s when the heating is on full blast. So as LeeC says you will get high temps at the tap particularly at low flow rates. Scalding is instant at 60℃ and above and the higher the temperature the worse the scold gets.

I can see a situation where an Intergas combi replaces a modern designed combi with a plate heat exchanger that has been designed to prevent hit water temperature spikes. In such circumstances I hope the installer of the Intergas boiler has followed G3 and protected the taps with a blending valve.

There is little wonder why no one else makes boilers like Intergas anymore as they are backward.

 

[SilentDancer]

D.R has put in loads of intergas boilers & the Atmos variant (made bny intergas)

he knows em inside out & knows what he's talking about only 4 moving pts

if we all started installing em the repair market would take a big hit
(may be?)

think BMW (some car maker any way) were involved in the heat exc design ?

Probably one of the very few boilers on the market ? (only ?) that are system
/dirt friendly ???????

Says a lot about Intergas installers. No modern boiler is dirty system friendly. So Intergas with their promotion of 4 working parts are insuatating that there's is the boiler for cowboys who don't want to clean and inhibit the system.

Well if that's the case I expect to see lots of pump failures on Intergas boilers as the modern pumps are magnetitie atracters.

 

[Dan Robinson]

You'll be waiting a long time. . I cover 33000 square miles for warranty work under the Atmos days and have installed hundreds myself.

Pump changes for me are still in single figures, Grunny AND Wilo.


Keep trying SD. .

 

[Biggles..]

Again though Dan, good point about G3, its quite possible that the hot slug could actually be beyond the limit.

 

[Dan Robinson]

A problem I have yet to experience

 

[Biggles..]

This issue isn't about your experience it's about exactly what the regulation States,the mockery now being its no longer just about unventeds over 15l- under normal working conditions the appliance is capable of producing hot water at 80 or above....therefore you must prevent it.
The one I mentioned earlier with massive run off before being cool, we've had to install TMV's because it was dangerous.

If you choose to cap your flow temp, fit WC etc rather than a blending valve then that's fine, but then you should be producing a RA per install to warn that if your setting are altered the appliance is capable of scalding.again this is something we do for HA's that fit combi's in warden aided complex's-DHW set to 45 and RA to cover if they choose to turn up.

After your recent couple of days traininhg, think why that manufacturer has dip switched fitted with a max hot water temp being lower than the reg.

You know my views, and yes I've fitted probably more than yourself this year, it's a well made heat engine, but don't take that as its concept being faultless.
The components on their own would normally be seen as second rate, without going on and on, the biggest issue with the intergas is the UK company that sell it!