I never claimed otherwise. I can't see any reason why you can't use them for domestic use.
My apologies - I mistakenly thought that this:
At the slightest mention of downlighters were are treated to your cut&paste of various light fittings intended for non-domestic installations.
was a criticism of me suggesting that lights "intended for non-domestic installations" could be used in a domestic environment, not an agreement.
The manufacturer's positioning is probably a pretty strong hint about the application they are specifically intended for though.
My apologies - I mistakenly thought that it was OK to use them in a domestic environment even if the maker intends them for use elsewhere, in the same way that it's OK to use tools for DIY even if the maker intends them for professional use.
The difference is obvious. I bought my Bosch drill because I wanted a 'professional quality' drill.
My apologies - I mistakenly thought that there was little difference, and that it was OK to use a product in a different environment to the one into which the maker marketed it if I wanted the performance it offered.
I will try to remember that it's OK to do that with tools, but not with lights.
It would be a great help to me if you could list what sorts of items intended for professional or non-domestic use are OK to use in a non-professional or domestic setting, and which are not, since you clearly have a lot of knowledge in this area, and I clearly don't get it at all.
If I wanted my kitchen to look like my office I'd fit appropriate lights.
My apologies - I mistakenly thought that as a kitchen is a place of work it might be OK to provide it with lighting which was appropriate to that.
Again, I would appreciate an explanation from you of what kitchen items, e.g. pans, knives, ingredients etc I should use, even if the makers intend them for non-domestic use, and which I should not, because obviously I have been going terribly wrong by considering what things
do rather than taking notice of the market the maker thinks he should focus on.
Unobtrusive: probably, though that doesn't necessarily make them attractive. Whatever.
My apologies - I mistakenly thought that as some people like this:
and some like this:
and some like a mixture of the two:
that it would be OK to suggest the use of unobtrusive lights even if
you don't consider them attractive.
Your biggest bug-bear seems to be efficiency, but using over 150W to light a small room is hardly something to shout about.
Would it be OK if I removed the lights and put in a twin 6' fluorescent strip which uses only 140W?
the comment which I quoted above about the LEDs that "they are indeed very bright and illuminate the room extremely well. Anything brighter would have been too bright."
That will be the room with 0.78 lights per m², will it, compared to mine with 0.46 and Steve's with 0.12?
Which leads to the conclusion that your lighting is x10 less efficient than the LEDs.
My apologies - I mistakenly thought that when you agreed that "of course" absolute wattage is not the point you were being truthful.
Of course I could be an order of magnitude out in any assumptions, and the LEDs would still be more efficient. I just expected that when you say unobtrusive efficient lighting it would be, you know, efficient...
we ended up using 13 lights. Each was a 3W B&Q LED "Hi Power" GU10 light.
The room is 5.2m long x 3.2m wide by 3.2m high.
They are awesome. My kitchen's lit by 52 watts! I have two (2x13w) in a 17sqm kitchen.
So 1 light for every 1.28m² and 2.35W/m² good, 1 light for every 8.5m² and 3.05W/m² bad.
Thank you for clarifying.
Have you ever looked at LED lamps? The 'MR' part has very little relevance. The beam angle is dominated by the internal reflector within the LED. The ones that use higher-current chips usually have additional per-chip reflectors, but this is entirely independent of the MR16 format. Some even claim beam angles of 120 degrees, although I have no experience of these. You may want to google some images of LED MR16 bulbs.
Could you light a 17m² room with 2 of them?
