If you were God...

[sooey]

I suppose that the point is that the catholic church has been proven so completely wrong about so many of it's "assertions" over the years that even a believer must ask themselves, how can we know they are right over their one assertion that can never be scientifically disproven?

 

[Big Tone]

I suppose that the point is that the catholic church has been proven so completely wrong about so many of it's "assertions" over the years that even a believer must ask themselves, how can we know they are right over their one assertion that can never be scientifically disproven?

Quite Sooey! But, as has been said, you cannot reason with a fruitcake.

“The Church eventually lifted the ban on Galileo's Dialogue in 1822, when it was common knowledge that the Earth was not the center of the Universe. Still later, there were statements by the Vatican Council in the early 1960's and in 1979 that implied that Galileo was pardoned, and that he had suffered at the hands of the Church. Finally, in 1992, three years after Galileo Galilei's namesake spacecraft had been launched on its way to Jupiter, the Vatican formally and publicly cleared Galileo of any wrongdoing.” Ref.

How pathetic! What about the Church’s wrongdoing FFS!


“In 2000, Pope John Paul II issued a formal apology for all the mistakes committed by some Catholics in the last 2,000 years of the Catholic Church's history, including the trial of Galileo among others” Ref.

What an utterly reprehensible institution! How anyone could have or show respect for such a vile club is beyond me...

 

[mdf290]

That would be true justice in action.

Was it the old Chinese proverb that went something like 'if you want revenge, first dig two graves' ?

Why would a death sentence for someone who killed your children be considered revenge?

If that is what you believe then ALL justice is an act of revenge. Taking someones freedom for stealing your poxy iphone which you waste time on to no effect for example.

 

[pred]

Some of the comments on here got me wondering, these bible pushers may well have a valid point, no doubt everyone on here has a mobile phone, now who amongst you knows how it is put together and how it works??

As I thought! No one knows or understands, therefore it has obviously been created by GOD...

 

[chapeau]

Why would a death sentence for someone who killed your children be considered revenge?

Because what you said in addition was:

.... I would like Family members being given the opportunity to pull the levers.

That is revenge pure and simple.

When society acts via the criminal justice system then the motives are different.

 

[sooey]

When society acts via the criminal justice system then the motives are different.

Which is why the outcomes are so unsatisfactory, and not just to the family members. Sometimes good old fashioned revenge is the only way.

 

[chapeau]

It was Galileo, his assertion that the Earth orbited the sun not vice versa was what got up their noses.

No, the Earth going around the sun had been known for some time. In fact the Church knew it independantly, they had some of the finest scientists of the time on their books. To be a scientist you had to be educated. The ability to read and write was something the church controlled, so they made sure they reserved that skill to people they thought they could trust.

What the Church was annoyed about was Galileo was spreading the word in the 'wrong way'. The church wanted to control the release of this information in a way which would not damage their power structure, which is after all what organised religion is about.

Had he shut up, done his research, given it to the church for them to use as they saw fit, he would have been fine.

 

[chapeau]

Sometimes good old fashioned revenge is the only way.

Well that's Ok if you want to think that way. Just remember to dig that second grave. You think you would be tough enough to live with your actions? Plenty have thought that way and come to live with severe regrets.

 

[Big Tone]

I'm coming from the POV that you would be removing someone who is a danger to society, and we all need to take responsibility for our own actions.

There will be exceptions of course, nothing and no system is perfect, but the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Criminals' rights have superseded those of the innocent.

So you have cases now where a repeat offender can ruin the lives of a hundred just so some rehab numpty can later hail his reform as a success.

I don't call that a success or civilised. What about the rights of the innocent?

 

[chapeau]

Even criminals have rights you know. But when has a criminal's rights superceded those of somebody who is innocent?


(well in the UK, we hear stories of rapists in part of the world going free and their victim being lashed, but that doesn't happen in the criminal justice system here)

 

[sooey]

Sometimes good old fashioned revenge is the only way.

Well that's Ok if you want to think that way. Just remember to dig that second grave. You think you would be tough enough to live with your actions? Plenty have thought that way and come to live with severe regrets.

Leaving aside everything else, if somebody had tortured and murdered my child and I had the opportunity to do the same to them. Would I lose sleep over it? Only by lying there wondering how I could have made the bstrd suffer even more than I had before he died.

 

[sooey]

It was Galileo, his assertion that the Earth orbited the sun not vice versa was what got up their noses.

No, the Earth going around the sun had been known for some time. In fact the Church knew it independantly, they had some of the finest scientists of the time on their books. To be a scientist you had to be educated. The ability to read and write was something the church controlled, so they made sure they reserved that skill to people they thought they could trust.

What the Church was annoyed about was Galileo was spreading the word in the 'wrong way'. The church wanted to control the release of this information in a way which would not damage their power structure, which is after all what organised religion is about.

Had he shut up, done his research, given it to the church for them to use as they saw fit, he would have been fine.

I didn't say it was his discovery, Copernicus came up with that earlier, but Galileo was championing it. I agree with everything else you say which just underlines how manipulative the catholic church has been down the ages of European and World history.

 

[JBR]

Sometimes good old fashioned revenge is the only way.

Well that's Ok if you want to think that way. Just remember to dig that second grave. You think you would be tough enough to live with your actions? Plenty have thought that way and come to live with severe regrets.

Leaving aside everything else, if somebody had tortured and murdered my child and I had the opportunity to do the same to them. Would I lose sleep over it? Only by lying there wondering how I could have made the bstrd suffer even more than I had before he died.

I agree.

There are some societies in this world whose penal system allows the damaged party to decide the punishment of the guilty party. I can go along with that.

Then again, doesn't the Bible mention something about 'an eye for an eye'?

 

[Sombrero]

What a brilliant thread. Surprised this hasn't been discussed like this before?!

I'm in team atheist btw !!

 

[breadnbutter]

Sometimes good old fashioned revenge is the only way.

Well that's Ok if you want to think that way. Just remember to dig that second grave. You think you would be tough enough to live with your actions? Plenty have thought that way and come to live with severe regrets.

Leaving aside everything else, if somebody had tortured and murdered my child and I had the opportunity to do the same to them. Would I lose sleep over it? Only by lying there wondering how I could have made the bstrd suffer even more than I had before he died.

i would think like that also,and would want to get revenge.one of the hardest things ,is to forgive becuase of the terrible pain involved , but forgiving does not say what was done shouldent be punished. it is for the benefit of you,becuase anger and bitterness can make us ill,in mind and body.