Immersion hot water not lasting long enough!

[Harry Bloomfield]

Yes turned that on and immediately makes a that sizzle sound for a minute or so. Took photos to show the light also came on.

That should be turning the upper element on, to produce a small amount of hot water, for those times when you use up all the hot produced on E7, via the bottom element. Is that clock, set at the correct time of day, where is says 'summer / winter'? That's BST/GMT.

Yes, heating, and heating water via electric, even E7 is very expensive.

You say you are getting some hot water, but not enough for a bath - are you having to do anything special to get that heated water, or is it done automatically?

 

[LeeFL]

That should be turning the upper element on, to produce a small amount of hot water, for those times when you use up all the hot produced on E7, via the bottom element. Is that clock, set at the correct time of day, where is says 'summer / winter'? That's BST/GMT.

Yes, heating, and heating water via electric, even E7 is very expensive.

You say you are getting some hot water, but not enough for a bath - are you having to do anything special to get that heated water, or is it done automatically?

As the clocks went back last night, the clock is also set correctly today as well on ‘winter’.

I find the boost option is extortionate and takes forever to heat up and doesn’t really heat up boiling hot enough for what it costs.

It’s all done automatically it seems, when I have wanted to have a bath I end up topping up with boiling water from the kettle (yes a few runs). I do wonder if there is a faulty element as the hot water should surely last longer than that. The pressure of the hot water is horrendous really from the bath and shower feed especially, not particularly great either from other taps including the kitchen.

I feel an electric shower could solve the problem for me with regards to just having a decent hot wash…etc?? As I do hope to gain permission to have one and have a walk in shower put in and bath removed. Electric showers feed off the cold water don’t they? Which wouldn’t be an issue I don’t think as the cold water pressure is amazing, if not too aggressive!

 

[LeeFL]

Is that clock, set at the correct time of day, where is says 'summer / winter'? That's BST/GMT.

Please refer to photo to see current time setting.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I find the boost option is extortionate and takes forever to heat up and doesn’t really heat up boiling hot enough for what it costs.

It is expensive, and nowt much you can do about it, apart from make sure the E7 water heating is doing its part, but still expensive.

It’s all done automatically it seems, when I have wanted to have a bath I end up topping up with boiling water from the kettle (yes a few runs). I do wonder if there is a faulty element as the hot water should surely last longer than that.

My cylinder is also around 120L, and when up to temperature, we find it more than adequate to fill a bath, though gas boiler heated, to 65C, so we need to mix it with quite a lot of cold, which 'stretches' the hot out.

If your E7 is producing some hot water, but not enough - then it suggests it is either switching the element off, at too low a temperature, or it is not set to be on long enough to fully heat the water. Have you any means of checking the temperature of the hot water, at the bath tap, after it has been supposedly heated by E7 alone?

 

[LeeFL]

It is expensive, and nowt much you can do about it, apart from make sure the E7 water heating is doing its part, but still expensive.

Yeah it is unfortunate that I’m limited in what I can do about that lol, it is what it is in that regard. It definitely seems to heat up during the off peak but for how long it’s actually doing it remains to be seen and I am curious about this more now.

My cylinder is also around 120L, and when up to temperature, we find it more than adequate to fill a bath, though gas boiler heated, to 65C, so we need to mix it with quite a lot of cold, which 'stretches' the hot out.

The hot water doesn’t fill even half way if that really before it turns cold. And when using via the shower head off the taps it will turn lukewarm before you got it above your head and obviously cold when above and this is just when leaning over the bath! Again probably the pressure of the hot water not helping at all in regards to the shower feed.

If your E7 is producing some hot water, but not enough - then it suggests it is either switching the element off, at too low a temperature, or it is not set to be on long enough to fully heat the water. Have you any means of checking the temperature of the hot water, at the bath tap, after it has been supposedly heated by E7 alone?

I do wonder if you could be on to something with regards to the element being switched off or the low temp as a possible issue. I’m not sure I have anything to hand to check the temp at the tap.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I do wonder if you could be on to something with regards to the element being switched off or the low temp as a possible issue. I’m not sure I have anything to hand to check the temp at the tap.

You could isolate the power, and remove that cover over the bottom element, and see what the thermostat is set at, under there. It will have an adjustable slot, pointing at marking for temperatures. 55C is what some recommend, but we like hot water hot, so we have ours at 65C. The hotter the hot, the more cold needs to be added to use it, the further the hot streches.

You could also try rotating that controls clock setting slowly, listening for the clicks as it turns on and off. It would need around 2 hours of on, to fully heat the cylinder. Don't forget to reset the clock, to the correct time.

 

[Madrab]

An electric shower will not only require the install of the shower with it own dedicated cold water supply, it will also require it's own dedicated electrical supply, what cable size/MCB rating will be determined by how powerful the shower being installed is. That and if there is space in the CU to carry another circuit. The electrical supply invariably costs more to install than the shower does. The advantage is that the shower only uses power when the shower is being used but in the winter, when the water is colder, the 7.5Kw showers can be pitiful.

The shower booster will use your current setup and only needs the HW pipe to the bath tap cut into (if the cold to the bath tap is already mains) and then just installed. Then just uses a 12v transformer to power it. Someone with basic pipework experience could fit it, in about 15mins, as long as the HW can be shut off, they are usually around £130

 

[Rodders53]

Economy 7 Quartz - United Kingdom

Designed specifically for use with Economy 7 off-peak rate overnight electricity, Economy 7 Quartz is the standard by which all other water heating controls are judged, and is the all-time best seller in water heating controls.

www.securemeters.com

has both the User and Installation Manuals for you to read ... the E7 times should be preset correctly but who knows? (ON time between 4.5 and 7 hours and between 23:30pm 09:00 and affects the bottom element only).
Boost only does the top element.
It may be worth checking when the timer is set to go on/off as I can't tell by the photos.

The Gledhill is 120 litre capacity so a BDIR20 900mm high x 450mm diameter. The bath must be bigger than some modern ones if there's not enough hot, perhaps?

The lower immersion heater element must be working...
No hot water otherwise as you haven't used the top (boost one before).

As Harry suggests, under the black covers of each of the elements (!!! isolate the mains before opening !!!) will be a thermostat that could be set a tad higher for hotter water (which then presents an increased scalding risk) that might do a tad better at filling a bath?

It would need around 2 hours of on, to fully heat the cylinder.

That's probably around the minimum time and it could need around 30 minutes of that time (1.5kWh) to make up a days' worth of heat loss from the cylinder... excluding losses from all that uninsulated pipework. The Gledhill is a well insulated beast though!

A moot point though as it is supposed to have been on for a minimum of 4.5 hours (the thermostat will switch off when satisfied the water inside is at the right temperature some time sooner).

OP should really be asking the HA to supply this shower-booster or electric shower? {I'd say the same if a private Landlord rental.}

I'm also slightly surprised the Bath filler/shower isn't a thermostatic one (as current Building Regs require) if in a HA letting?

OP also needs to ensure they have a peak/off peak rate metering tariff to take advantage of heating the water overnight...

 

[LeeFL]

An electric shower will not only require the install of the shower with it own dedicated cold water supply, it will also require it's own dedicated electrical supply, what cable size/MCB rating will be determined by how powerful the shower being installed is. That and if there is space in the CU to carry another circuit. The electrical supply invariably costs more to install than the shower does. The advantage is that the shower only uses power when the shower is being used but in the winter, when the water is colder, the 7.5Kw showers can be pitiful.

The shower booster will use your current setup and only needs the HW pipe to the bath tap cut into (if the cold to the bath tap is already mains) and then just installed. Then just uses a 12v transformer to power it. Someone with basic pipework experience could fit it, in about 15mins, as long as the HW can be shut off, they are usually around £130

It seems there is space for a new circuit to be added. And I agree the 7.5Kw would be pitiful, I would be inclined to get 10.5Kw.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

It seems there is space for a new circuit to be added. And I agree the 7.5Kw would be pitiful, I would be inclined to get 10.5Kw.

Well worth having, then you have an alternative to the cylinder if it should fail, or you use all the contents and cannot wait for it to replenish.

 

[LeeFL]

Well worth having, then you have an alternative to the cylinder if it should fail, or you use all the contents and cannot wait for it to replenish.

It does seem like the more obvious route to go down. If I stay here long term, which is something I hope to do if I manage to sort this out, I may consider changing the storage heaters, the current ones are Dimplex Quantum Series G QM100 (x4 living room/bedrooms) and QM050 (x1 - hallway), as they don’t look particularly nice and I am still getting used to using them but think there must be more efficient and nicer/slimmer ones out there and also be able to be controlled via an app.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I may consider changing the storage heaters,

Don't be tempted to buy those none storage type, which they make ridiculous claims about their high efficiency.

 

[LeeFL]

Also, it’s worth noting that the bath is a standard small bath and the hot water can only fill up about 12cm deep before going cold! No joke, even measured it, and as mentioned before the HW pressure is slow.

 

[LeeFL]

Don't be tempted to buy those none storage type, which they make ridiculous claims about their high efficiency.

Are you referring to the electric radiators?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Are you referring to the electric radiators?

Yes, you could call them that. The type which don't make use of E7, and they make wild claims about how efficient they are, compared to old fashioned storage heaters. One electric heater, is just as efficient as any other - all that varies is the delivery method for the heat, and how much you pay for the energy. Off-peak storage, is as cheap as you get, unless you go for air-sourced, which claim to produce maybe three times as much heat energy out, as you put in.