Installing Japanese toilet seat

[morqthana]

As an illustration of this, were this not a 'family forum' ( ) I could mention some activities which are practised by some people without their contracting any disease.

Even it it were not I'm sure people would prefer it if you didn't....

 

[EFLImpudence]

Who can be bothered to go to a funeral parlour to get wholesome (drinking) water?

 

[JohnW2]

Even it it were not I'm sure people would prefer it if you didn't....

That's why I (sort-of!) " didn't " - but that doesn't alter the fact that it's true

 

[JohnW2]

< a table of 'fluid categories'.

Yes, I understand all that, but the statement by flameport which prompted my comment/question (with my emboldening) was:

Lower category fluids such as used to supply a garden hose ...

... and, as I said in response, nearly all of us have only one type of water with which we can supply a garden hose - namely 'wholesome (drinkable)', "Category 1", mains water).

I suppose I was being a bit pedantic, and that flameport didn't really mean to write exactly what he typed - but he did type that

 

[JohnW2]

Who can be bothered to go to a funeral parlour to get wholesome (drinking) water?

 

[morqthana]

... and, as I said in response, nearly all of us have only one type of water with which we can supply a garden hose - namely 'wholesome (drinkable)', "Category 1", mains water).

Sorry, didn't pick up on that.

What makes most sense is that he meant water supplied by a garden hose, so if you're filling a paddling pool, or a watering can or a sprayer with herbicide/pesticide, the end could be submerged in non-category 1.

If you were supplying a hose with a lower category, e.g. from a rainwater butt, it would have no connection to any part of the public supply.

 

[morqthana]

A few drops of water flowing back from a garden hose into the potable water supply will present a very low risk of biological harm.

A single drop of water contaminated with biologic material from a person's anus will present a very high risk of passing disease if it reaches the potable water system

It is comforting to think that one's lips have an uninterrupted connection to one's anus.

 

[JohnW2]

Sorry, didn't pick up on that. .... What makes most sense is that he meant water supplied by a garden hose, ...

Quite so. I'm sure he did - which is why, as I said, my comment was a little on the pedantic/sarcastic side - particular since it is far from unknown that MY typing fingers type something different from what my brain instructed/intended them to type

 

[JohnW2]

It is comforting to think that one's lips have an uninterrupted connection to one's anus.

Exactly, and that's really the basis of what I wrote. The gut is a single tube all within the same human body. If something pathogenic comes out of one end (and hence could be harmful to others if it were introduced into their 'other end' {mouth} ) then the first person would either be ill, with an active gut infection (rare), or would have to be an 'asymptomatic carrier' (much rarer).

Were that not the case, then people would be forever 'making themselves ill', because bugs in one part of their gut would inevitably find their way to other parts!

 

[flameport]

Why does the pump have to be built in? What's wrong with using a small shower pump?

Practical reasons. Shower pumps are designed to supply far more water than is required for a bidet seat, shower pumps require a minimum head which you won't get with water supplied from a toilet cistern, where exactly would this pump be located, it's another item to supply electricity to, it will be noisy, and so on.

A shower pump could possibly be made to work in that situation if the manufacturer's instructions were completely ignored, but most sensible people would just buy a seat with the pump built in.

 

[plugwash]

the first person would either be ill, with an active gut infection (rare)

Prior to modern sanitation, disease outbreaks and parasites through fecal contamination of drinking water supplies were a huge problem.

 

[JohnW2]

Prior to modern sanitation, disease outbreaks and parasites through fecal contamination of drinking water supplies were a huge problem.

Yes, that did happen in the past, and still does in some countries and in the face of various natural and man-made disasters. However, 'poor sanitation' can obviously only transmit/spread disease (not 'create' it), so requires a significant number of people to be actively infected (or. much more rarely, 'asymptomatic carriers'). The big problems you refer to have occurred at times, and in places (to this day) when/where various diseases that can be spread in this way were endemic in many countries.

Having said that, we still see the problem to some extent, even in the UK, as a result of contamination of rivers and costal waters with 'raw sewage'. However, that's a bit different, because that 'raw sewage' is 'mixed', deriving from thousands, or tens of thousands of people, hence greatly increasing the probability that at least one of them will have been excreting pathogens. In contrast the probability of the user of a bidet/whatever that somehow manages to 'backflow' into the water supply network (I imagine extremely rare in itself) excreting pathogens at the time of that backflow must be incredibly small.

I would also add that 'modern sanitation' is just one of the many factors that has largely eradicated the sort of 'huge problems' you mention, in countries like ours. I think much of our 'modern sanitation' is still 'Victorian', and to cite an anecdote, my great-grandmother died of typhoid, at the age of 23, a few years after Queen Victoria had departed for 'the palace in the sky'

As I hinted above, one of the things I've always thought about these concerns are that I would imagine it is extremely rare for water from anywhere within a domestic dwelling to backflow into the water supply network, since that presumably requires the supply pressure to fall to near-zero, or negative, which generally never happens unless there is a fault ('burst water main') in the supply network in the vicinity.

 

[johnny2007]

The worst thing of this thread is that up on this side of Europe nobody knows how a bidet is supposed to be used.
You don't stick any part of your body anywhere near the water outlet.
Also, you don't use the bidet as a second toilet, so anyone using it has presumably wiped as if they weren't washing afterwards.
Bidets are used for further cleaning, not instead of toilet paper.
Now, knowing this, what chances more than zero are there for contamination?

 

[JohnW2]

The worst thing of this thread is that up on this side of Europe nobody knows how a bidet is supposed to be used.
You don't stick any part of your body anywhere near the water outlet. .... Also, you don't use the bidet as a second toilet, so anyone using it has presumably wiped as if they weren't washing afterwards.

It sounds as if you may have missed the fact that this discussion has been about a "Japanese toilet seat", (almost a bidet, but for a somewhat different purpose) and, as for .....

Bidets are used for further cleaning, not instead of toilet paper.

.... Mr Wikipedia says ....

..... The washlet can replace toilet paper completely, but many users opt to use both wash and paper in combination—although use of paper may be omitted for cleaning of the vulva. Some wipe before washing, some wash before wiping, some wash only, and some wipe only—each according to their preference.

Now, knowing this, what chances more than zero are there for contamination?

In view of my comments above, I don't think it's a matter of "knowing this" but, as I've said, I do think the 'risk' is not far from zero. The probability of backflow into the supply network occurring is very low, as is the probability of any contamination getting into the water at the bidet/seat, and also as is the probability of the individual concerned having pathogenic organisms to excrete. Multiply those three very small probabilities together and you get an extremely small overall 'risk '

 

[morqthana]

I would imagine it is extremely rare for water from anywhere within a domestic dwelling to backflow into the water supply network, since that presumably requires the supply pressure to fall to near-zero, or negative, which generally never happens unless there is a fault ('burst water main') in the supply network in the vicinity.

Or until some hostile actor hacks the control systems for the water & waste network?