Investment

[Justin Passing]

I’d be interested in cash like investments that I can hold in my GIA to avoid 47% tax? Cash like with growth as capital.

Yes me too! Hence I was looking at the dividend options to reduce tax. I can'y honestly say I favour any stock for its divi, though. That schroder thing is about as good as it gets. I suppose as a diversifier it's ok.

Low coupon Gilts.

I have put quite a lot into mine in the last two weeks.

I have TN28, TG30 and TR31. Your needs may differ.

Those are the ones I've been on about. Capital growth being free of tax. Only TN28 for me though atm Stuck a milli in that, seemed like a nice number,

The Mrs has just looked at her works pension. She puts in say £200 a month with her company’s amount it’s £528 a month.

Gotta have as much of that as poss, but do check where they're putting it and if you have any options.

Those less-short gilts aren't easy to sell - look
dim to see but Tn28 is dark blue, Orange is money market. VUAG is S&P500, ish, and the other is a dividend-paying fund. NOt fopr its dividend which is o,86%, but divi paying stocks are often cash cows.

As you can see, TN 28 is more or less parallel with the money market, after a dip ( about when I bought mine, luckily) but those others (typo - got one of John's wrong) are so long term that they're affected a lot by current bond yields. (Interest rates, generally.)
The goldish and greeny blue ones, you'd have simply lost value in the past 6 months
WHILE the stock market is rising as it has done, They're a bad idea. CGT tops out at 24% at the moment so while that persists, EVEN the 6 or whatever % you get eventually, being free of tax, isn't much of a magnet.
You have to be careful what returns are actually treated as what we and the HMRC recognise as dividends.
You find numbers in 3 figures at eg JustETF , but those aren't real . Evan real ones have to be UK reporting. Then you may have exchange risk.
Thebest of the divi finds I think is IUKD, which has returned 9% in capital growth + about 4.7% in dividends


Here's that missing fund included: - ooh no thanks. With rates looking like they're rising, I'd expect its price to drop further in the shortish term.

 

[Dec27]

Yes me too! Hence I was looking at the dividend options to reduce tax. I can'y honestly say I favour any stock for its divi, though. That schroder thing is about as good as it gets. I suppose as a diversifier it's ok.

Those are the ones I've been on about. Capital growth being free of tax. Only TN28 for me though atm Stuck a milli in that, seemed like a nice number,

Gotta have as much of that as poss, but do check where they're putting it and if you have any options.

Those less-short gilts aren't easy to sell - look
dim to see but Tn28 is dark blue, Orange is money market. VUAG is S&P500, ish, and the other is a dividend-paying fund. NOt fopr its dividend which is o,86%, but divi paying stocks are often cash cows.
View attachment 424917


As you can see, TN 28 is more or less parallel with the money market, after a dip ( about when I bought mine, luckily) but those others (typo - got one of John's wrong) are so long term that they're affected a lot by current bond yields. (Interest rates, generally.)
The goldish and greeny blue ones, you'd have simply lost value in the past 6 months
WHILE the stock market is rising as it has done, They're a bad idea. CGT tops out at 24% at the moment so while that persists, EVEN the 6 or whatever % you get eventually, being free of tax, isn't much of a magnet.
You have to be careful what returns are actually treated as what we and the HMRC recognise as dividends.
You find numbers in 3 figures at eg JustETF , but those aren't real . Evan real ones have to be UK reporting. Then you may have exchange risk.
Thebest of the divi finds I think is IUKD, which has returned 9% in capital growth + about 4.7% in dividends


Here's that missing fund included: - ooh no thanks. With rates looking like they're rising, I'd expect its price to drop further in the shortish term.

View attachment 424919

I might need a private lesson mate. You’re next level

 

[Justin Passing]

Those are day changes. Have you got one for the week?

This is something I look at, and scribble notes in the A4 daily diary. I'd love to back test it for a couple of years with a regular money shifting tactic.
There are lots of paid charts which show sector money flow

Sector Money Flow — 14-Day Flow Rate Across the 11 US Sectors

Live 14-day money flow rates and 5-day price changes for all 11 GICS US stock market sectors.

www.sectormoneyflow.com

 

[JohnD]

However, return is reliable if kept to maturity.

Hence the ladder.

 

[Justin Passing]

I might need a private lesson mate. You’re next level

Ask AI - switch between ChatGPT and Claude. (free versions).
They do go off at tangents, but you can tell them off.

It does depend, frankly, how much dosh you have and how much you care.
My brother is in the Mottie camp. He's 70's and has a several hundred k. He's happy to bung it in rotating fixed interest building society accounts and just pay the tax. He's got enough, and isn't bothered. He has a couple of cheap rental properties, which he's decided are too much trouble. When the tenants move on he'll sell.
He accumulated a few rented garages too, they're much better! He paid peanuts for them so there's a large capital gain, which his executors will pay tax on.

 

[Justin Passing]

However, return is reliable if kept to maturity.

Hence the ladder.

Sure but when they're predictably falling in value, it's better to postpone the purchase and sit in cash. no?
The "linkers" are becoming more attractive. (Inflation linked treasury gilts). They're even harder to plan out, but if you reckon the index they follow (with a lag) which is the RPI, is rising, they look better. September, that was 3.9%. The index is turning to the CPIH in 2030 iirc. That's currently 3.6%
SO , surprise, they're moving to a lower one.

When I dug last, the lines crossed at 4.1% for linkers to be better.

 

[JohnD]

Sure but when they're predictably falling in value, it's better to postpone the purchase and sit in cash. no?

An alternative view is, if you've decided to move into X, go ahead and do it, rather than fidget waiting for a penny move that you hope will be in your favour. Unless the market is just as clever as you are, and bids it up.

It would not be to my advantage to hold cash for more than a month.

 

[Mottie]

It would not be to my advantage to hold cash for more than a month.

What about those funds you drew out to put into premium bonds for "easy access"? They have to be in bonds for a clear month before going into the draw anyway. In any case, you never explained why you moved the money into pb's - surely if you could take it out of your high interest investments to put into pb's for several months, you had easy enough access in the first place!

 

[Justin Passing]

An alternative view is, if you've decided to move into X, go ahead and do it, rather than fidget waiting for a penny move that you hope will be in your favour. Unless the market is just as clever as you are, and bids it up.

It would not be to my advantage to hold cash for more than a month.

As you said, use limit orders.
Fidget?? Look at your phone for one minute, once a week.

You seem to ascribe value to "deciding" and "doing it" without regard to whether those are wise moves or not.
"Going ahead and doing it", from the graph above, would have lost you over 4%.
HWM said you're a big investor - well at 5m deposited that's £200,000.

You can "decide" to do better.
You aren't "holding cash", you'd stick it somewhere useful. A building society transfer is same day, no spread, no delay. Currently 4.5% or so pa.
Holding it there for more than a month is exactly what you should do if interest rate pressure is in the news every day and the bond price is predictably dipping.

 

[JohnD]

I don't recognise your graph.

The gilt prices mostly jiggle around in fractions of 1% in a day.

I don't see the 4% you mentioned as a change in price.

 

[Justin Passing]

I don't recognise your graph.

The gilt prices mostly jiggle around in fractions of 1% in a day.

I don't see the 4% you mentioned as a change in price.

They're straight from ii. CSH2 up about 2% while those orangey yellows went down 2%. Difference 4%.

Fractions of a % in a day = lots of % in 100 days.

 

[JohnD]

Looking at October, for the particular gilts I mentioned, the price changes are not really significant.

 

[Justin Passing]

Looking at October, for the particular gilts I mentioned, the price changes are not really significant.

You're looking for say 6% return,
you can cherry pick a month,but
0.65% a month is 7.8% pa backwards.

TG30, from Mar or May to Sept/Oct did nothing, after a 3% loss.
TR31 is a clear downtrend. With rate hikes acomin, it'll probably carry on down.
meanwhile
Building society up ~3% less tax,
SPY up 15%, less tax at 18% or 24% or 24%



@Dec27 - bedtime reading if you can't get to sleep -
https://www.ii.co.uk/bonds
and if that doesn't put you under, this will

Gilt Market

Gilt Market

www.dmo.gov.uk

an accessible list of them is here
https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/corporate-bonds-gilts/bond-prices/uk-gilts which ridiculously doesn't give the ticker code on that page. If you click the top one though for example, you'll see it's TN28

Don't buy at HL though, the charges are too high. I think you can use Freetrade

 

[Mottie]

Looks like the hindsight supervinvestor should have left his money in those accounts that were giving him 40% growth p.a. That or waited to see which investments performed best and claimed them after the event.

 

[Dec27]

@Highway Man That’s how it works at the wife’s place. If you can get anything like that I’d weigh in!!!

And don’t forget the tax savings. So for her to get the 10% she’d pay in £467 a month, but only lose £268 from her take home pay. And that’s 12k a year into her pension

I think that’s correct