Is it time to ban cigarettes/tobacco?

[masona]

I'll tell you something about drugs. I used to do drugs, but I'll tell you something honestly about drugs, honestly, and I know it's not a very popular idea, you don't hear it very often anymore, but it is the truth: I had a great time doing drugs. Sorry. Never murdered anyone, never robbed anyone, never raped anyone, never beat anyone, never lost a job, a car, a house, a wife or kids, laughed my ass off, and went about my day

That's good to hear from you but some are most likely to lead a life of crime or whatever because they addicted to drugs.

I never understood why people do drugs, surely they don't need drugs to feel good about themselves, IMO people doing drugs have a underlying issues or have difficulty talking about their feelings.

I have a frustrated disability and a bad childhood but I will never ever do drugs. I just get on with it the best I can.

It's good to talk

 

[holmslaw]

Copied below from my 'quitcounter' at 11.38am today;

"I am a nicotine addict.
I have stopped nicotine for 2 years, 10 months, 14 days, 14 hours, 37 minutes and 31 seconds (1050 days).

I've not smoked 63037 cigarettes, and saved £18,105.53.
I've saved 218 days, 21 hours and 2 minutes of my life."

 

[Djnikon]

That's good to hear from you but some are most likely to lead a life of crime or whatever because they addicted to drugs.

I never understood why people do drugs, surely they don't need drugs to feel good about themselves, IMO people doing drugs have a underlying issues or have difficulty talking about their feelings.

I have a frustrated disability and a bad childhood but I will never ever do drugs. I just get on with it the best I can.

It's good to talk

I'm not so sure about that. Drugs aren't always about feeling good about yourself. Sometimes it's purely for pleasure and other for a bit of escapism.
I have taken all manner of "illegals" (with the exception of the so-called "hard drugs" Heroin, Crack etc) and neither have had a traumatic childhood, mental issues nor have any "underlying" issues. I did it because the opportunity arose, I knew I had a choice of yes or no and decided to go with yes. I experienced them, then I decided to stop.
Smoking, well I think I would need to see all the facts from a neutral source, what else kills us that we should be banning? What is the death toll from, say, RTA's in proportion to smoking versus the opportunities presented (a defect rate if you will). How many people smoke and what percentage die, what's the age demographics? How many are in an age bracket that would have a death expectancy any way?

 

[peaps]

I'll tell you something about drugs. I used to do drugs, but I'll tell you something honestly about drugs, honestly, and I know it's not a very popular idea, you don't hear it very often anymore, but it is the truth: I had a great time doing drugs. Sorry. Never murdered anyone, never robbed anyone, never raped anyone, never beat anyone, never lost a job, a car, a house, a wife or kids, laughed my ass off, and went about my day

That's good to hear from you but some are most likely to lead a life of crime or whatever because they addicted to drugs.

I never understood why people do drugs, surely they don't need drugs to feel good about themselves, IMO people doing drugs have a underlying issues or have difficulty talking about their feelings.

I have a frustrated disability and a bad childhood but I will never ever do drugs. I just get on with it the best I can.

It's good to talk

We all do something to make us feel good! It might be a bar of chocolate, it might be sex it might be baccy or even booze. Just because it's legal doesn't make it wrong or bad.

Studies state that heroin is easy to come off if you are addicted to the good stuff but because of all the impurities in it it becomes a problem.

Not all people who take drugs are criminals.

 

[AronSearle]

So now we have an industry that generates far too much tax for the government to lose,

Governments don't have any money - it's OURS.

http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/ne...to-reflect-cost-of-smoking-to-society[/QUOTE]

You are a vile little man aren't you.

Did you even read your link.

the loss in economic output from the deaths of smokers and passive smokers (£4.1 billion and £713 million respectively).

So people who die no longer pay tax or work.

How dare they, don't they release they are serfs, they are meant to work, how dare they selfishly die and cost us money!

 

[masona]

Smoking, well I think I would need to see all the facts from a neutral source, what else kills us that we should be banning? What is the death toll from, say, RTA's in proportion to smoking versus the opportunities presented (a defect rate if you will). How many people smoke and what percentage die, what's the age demographics? How many are in an age bracket that would have a death expectancy any way?

True but isn't smoking self-inflicted and harming other innocent people, doesn't really bother me what people do but keep it away from me!

I think the problem could be from the early years as it was fashionable with children growing up in the smoking environment

 

[joe-90]

You are a vile little man aren't you.

When the argument is lost - the abuse begins.

 

[peaps]

So now we have an industry that generates far too much tax for the government to lose,

Governments don't have any money - it's OURS.

http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/ne...to-reflect-cost-of-smoking-to-society[/QUOTE]

You are a vile little man aren't you.

Did you even read your link.

the loss in economic output from the deaths of smokers and passive smokers (£4.1 billion and £713 million respectively).

So people who die no longer pay tax or work.

How dare they, don't they release they are serfs, they are meant to work, how dare they selfishly die and cost us money!

I read the link and noticed some "cherry picking" going on here...

"According to the think tank, the cost of smoking is made up of the cost of treating smokers on the NHS (£2.7 billion); loss in productivity due to smoking breaks (£2.9 billion); increased absenteeism (£2.9 billion); the cost of cleaning up cigarette butts (£342 million); the cost of smoking-related fires (£507 million); and the loss in economic output from the deaths of smokers and passive smokers (£4.1 billion and £713 million respectively)."

I have to agree with Joe on this one.

I won't insult you like you did him however...

 

[AronSearle]

If the argument is lost, why didn't you respond to what came after that comment.

Too afraid to face the argument because you know you can't do so without looking like a horrible little health Nazi?

And yes, I invoked goodwins law, because there is a reason people like you are called health Nazis.

Germany needs the strength of every single man for the development of its national and economic freedom. Therefore, no German has the right to impair his strength through alcohol abuse. Such action is detrimental not only to himself, but to his family, and above all, to his people.

Heinrich Himmler, SS leader 1938.

You actually linked to something which counts people dying from smoking as a financial cost to society.

So yea, like himmler, you are a vile little man.


(The rest of the costs in your link were also rubbish other than the primary healthcare cost. 2.7 billion "cost to society" from smoking breaks, pull the other one, it's got bells on it).

 

[AronSearle]

I read the link and noticed some "cherry picking" going on here...

Yes, there certinaly is some cherry picking going on in those costs.

According to the think tank, the cost of smoking is made up of the cost of treating smokers on the NHS (£2.7 billion)

Yes

loss in productivity due to smoking breaks (£2.9 billion)

GET BACK TO WORK SERFS.

Coffee is to be taxed now at 300%, watercoolers are to be removed as they encourage talking, all workers will be sealed in cubicles, talking to other staff members is prohibited.

Härter arbeiten Leibeigenen!

***And on a serious note, this is a cost to employers, don't see how this justifies extra tax to the government, are they going to give this money back to employers as compensation, pull the other one.


increased absenteeism (£2.9 billion)

See above ***


The cost of cleaning up cigarette butts (£342 million)

Yes

The cost of smoking-related fires (£507 million)

Cost to insurance bodies, not to governments, as per ***

and the loss in economic output from the deaths of smokers and passive smokers (£4.1 billion and £713 million respectively).

Funny how they count the deaths of people as economic costs (lost productivity).

They do that for farm animals too, you want to associate yourself with such people.

You to can be a health nazi.

 

[joe-90]

Aaron. How many people die each year from 'illegal' drugs like crack and H? Why isn't tobacco on that same list?

Table 1 Drug-related deaths in England and Wales 2000 to 2004

Cocaine 575
Amphetamine 384
Ecstasy 227
Solvents 246
Opiates (heroin, morphine & methadone) 4,976
Alcohol 25,000 - 200,000 approx.
Tobacco half a million approx


Health Nazi? Read the figures mate.

 

[AronSearle]

Aaron. How many people die each year from 'illegal' drugs like crack and H? Why isn't tobacco on that same list?

Table 1 Drug-related deaths in England and Wales 2000 to 2004

Cocaine 575
Amphetamine 384
Ecstasy 227
Solvents 246
Opiates (heroin, morphine & methadone) 4,976
Alcohol 25,000 - 200,000 approx.
Tobacco half a million approx


Health Nazi? Read the figures mate.

And yet you STILL don't address the point of deaths being considered an economic loss in the link you post.

Why is that, are you afraid to try and justify deaths as an economic loss?

Just like the Nazis did......






Your list is also ridiculous, you do not compare like for like. And if anything you argue that most of the drugs should be legalised.

Cocaine 575 (how is taking a "party" drug comparable to 20(?) fags a day)
Amphetamine 384 (as above)
Ecstasy 227 (as above, again)
Solvents 246 (often taken by people who can't get legal drugs)
Opiates (heroin, morphine & methadone) 4,976 (large amounts of deaths relate to impurities).
Alcohol 25,000 - 200,000 approx.
Tobacco half a million approx.


Never mind that due to the already high cost of tobacco duty, there is an estimate 2 billion black market, these are fags that have NO duty on them, and often contain more impurities and poisons.

Why don't you just stick your nose out of other peoples business my little Hitler.

 

[joe-90]

Oh dear. Touched nerve have we?

 

[joe-90]

During WW2 approx 65,000 UK civilians died.That's 4 YEARS of war.

Tobacco kills that many every 7 MONTHS. Isn't it time its use was banned?

 

[Whitespirit66]

I read the link and noticed some "cherry picking" going on here...

Yes, there certinaly is some cherry picking going on in those costs.

According to the think tank, the cost of smoking is made up of the cost of treating smokers on the NHS (£2.7 billion)

Yes

loss in productivity due to smoking breaks (£2.9 billion)

GET BACK TO WORK SERFS.

Coffee is to be taxed now at 300%, watercoolers are to be removed as they encourage talking, all workers will be sealed in cubicles, talking to other staff members is prohibited.

Härter arbeiten Leibeigenen!

***And on a serious note, this is a cost to employers, don't see how this justifies extra tax to the government, are they going to give this money back to employers as compensation, pull the other one.


increased absenteeism (£2.9 billion)

See above ***


The cost of cleaning up cigarette butts (£342 million)

Yes

The cost of smoking-related fires (£507 million)

Cost to insurance bodies, not to governments, as per ***

and the loss in economic output from the deaths of smokers and passive smokers (£4.1 billion and £713 million respectively).

Funny how they count the deaths of people as economic costs (lost productivity).

They do that for farm animals too, you want to associate yourself with such people.

You to can be a health nazi.

You hit the nail on the head. We aren't subjects, or even citizens any more. We are economic units in the big machine called UK PLC, controlled by government diktats and big business. Big business, the economy and the bottom line are all that counts now. Lower educational standards, herd us like sheep, and ship in millions of cheap foreign workers to keep us on our toes. Divide and rule.

How dare we enjoy a ciggie, that may cost us some of our tax paying and GDP enhancing existences.

Never mind Härter arbeiten Leibeigenen! They may as well do what the Krauts did, and put 'Arbeit Macht Frei' in big letters on the ports into the UK, like the signs over the concentration camp gates.

Bit harsh on Joe though.

You are a vile little man aren't you.

Don't think he's little!