Is the local builder having us over?

[DanBond]

Hi,

weve recently took on a property, around 6 weeks ago the garden wall just collapsed! on looking at the wall the cement was crumbling alot ! from that we did our homework and got in touch with the old owners, the wall was only 18 months old!

the wall is built down a hill and on a slight bend, the builder used no wall ties ... the old wall had collapsed before that , the builder blamed a bad mix for it s collapse and built a brand new wall , bare in mind he didnt build the one before that.

we got in touch with the builder who seemed shocked what had happened and insisted on helping, the insurance chucked it straight out as bad workman ship..

i then got two reports done off local builders who said there should have been wall ties to support the wall and that the cement was crumbling heavily so the mix was questioned..

5 weeks on and the builder hasnt done anything! we started to get a little angry so started persuing the builder ... he said he was going to get a proper analysis done which was at his own cost.....

hes APPARENTLY got his report done and he said it was a sulfate attack?

i asked him for a copy of the report and he said if i want it i should pay for the report like he has? surely he can photo copy it ? if it was me id be making lots of copys to protest my innocence if id done nothing wrong!

can sulfate salt attack kill a wall in such a short space of time?

 

[hotrod]

Hi Dan,

A couple of things, photos would be very helpful as it would enable posters to give you more specific / detailed advice. How big is the wall (length x height x thickness)? You seem to be focusing very much on the fact that no wall ties were used, but very often, when building garden walls the bond you use (english garden wall / english / flemish) negates the use of wall ties.

As I said above photos would help.

 

[mointainwalker]

I don't see that it is relevant if it's lack of ties or sulfate attack.

The basis of every transaction is that what you buy should be fit for purpose and should last for a reasonable time ( how much time depends on cost and type of product ).

Eighteen months is clearly not enough for a wall and I see the builder as being 100% liable under any imaginable conditions except it being knocked over by car/lorry etc.

 

[Static]

Hmm.. sulphate attack on a free standing wall?
And cavity ties in a garden wall?

Maybe you should explain what the wall is more, solid wall? cavity wall? brick or block? how high? retaining any soil? were foundations rebuilt? if so what size foundations? what soil are they on? do you have a high ground water table?

 

[jeds]

Why don't you get the mortar analysed? Fairly small cost and then you'll know exactly what the problem is.

It will be either incorrect mix, (material or proportions) fairy liquid in the mix or it was built during sub-zero temperature. I'll go for incorrect mix.

 

[noseall]

I think the issue of wall ties is irrelevant.

However i have witnessed rapid deterioration of mortar due to sulphate attack. It does knacker the mortar.

 

[DanBond]

Hi

sorry for the late reply

i shall post pictures up 2moro.... as u can imagine im not fully clued up on the whole lingo etc...

what someone said on guaranteeing the work to withstand the weather is bang on.... the whole wall is crumbling to bits on both sides so i have to rule out it been hit, i really wish it had and i could have claimed on the insurance for it !

whats weird is the 2 pillars that the builder before him did which stayed up and completely fine.... and look fully stable and the mix looks so more solid, i can literally rub my finger on the cement and it crumbles off... on the pillars that would be impossible !

4 days on and the builder hasnt replied about the "report" he had done... surely he would want to project his innocence and give me the "egg in my face" effect for my complaining?

how would i get the mortar investigated?

thanks for your replies

 

[mointainwalker]

I think you are going down the wrong route if you try to get the mortar investigated. It will cost you and you risk getting into a tangle of interpretation of two reports if the builder really has had one done.

In a way even his claim that his report confirms sulfate attack helps you, because it confirms something wrong with the wall and the wall is entirely his "technical" responsibility. Even if it is sulfate, it's his problem.

If you keep it simple, there is more chance of a clear-cut verdict.

A wall shouldn't fall down after eighteen months so do the usual, recorded delivery letter to the builder outlining your points, saying that he has 14 days to confirm he will undertake corrective action or you will take further action.

This could either be Trading Standards or Small Claims Court, not sure which would be better in this case.

 

[DanBond]

ive managed to get a few shots to show you to see what you think

the builders still not willing to show me the report and is saying its sulpate but why not just proove it? he says he payed 200 for the report and if i want the report then i can pay 200 too??


really losing my patience with him, just plain rude!

hopefully these pics will help with answers... the pillar on the last picture wasnt built by the builder in question, im no expert but the mix on the pillars looks completely diffrent to the wall, its solid!

[/img]

 

[DanBond]

anyone?

 

[jeds]

The look of the deterioration of the mortar does look similar to sulfate attack but nothing else points to it. Sulfate attack usually takes a long time to cause that sort of damage. It would be very unusual for it to set in after only a couple of years. Secondly, sulfate attack needs a large amount of water flow to cause the chemical reaction. It is a free standing wall so that doesn't help, but it is capped with a class B engineering brick, which is normally enough to keep the wall dry enough to allow sulfate to take hold. I'm not saying the coping detail is good - a tile dpc course would have been better - but it is normally good enough for basic protection. The wall is not retaining anything, so no problems there.

I think the only way it can be sulfate attack is if the sand or cement came from a contaminated source. But you won't know until you have it analysed. Take a sample and send it to a test lab. There's loads to choose from. Give one a call and discuss what they can offer you.