Kitchen Eletrics

[ian1234]

Hi, rewiring our kitchen and have a few questions and that I'd really appreciate some expert help on.

My intention is to do the wall chasing and fit boxes and then get an electrician to do the wiring and fit and RCD protected board and test.

The brick is a hollow type which is a bit of a bad to chase so I'm trying to limit chasing. I'm also trying to have FCU's out of sight.

The ceiling is down so I have easy access and was going with the overhead runs rather than under the worktop (Where pipes would interfere)

The questions I have are:

- can FCU's be put above cupboards which will mean they will be 100mm from the ceiling? (Safe Zone?)

- The boiler is being boxed in a 600mm cupboard. can the FCU be put in the cupboard next to the boiler ? (Attached to the wall rather than cupboard)

- Do you need to have an FCU above worktop for a dishwasher or can I put a single socket behind the cupboard next to it and simply plug it in ?

- Can the cooker switch > outlet cable run be run in normal plastic conduit if it's routed straight down and then across ?

I've searched this excellent forum for the answers and read lots of useful advice but couldn't find answers to these questions. If anyone can give me some advice it would be much appreciated.

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• ian1234
• 14 Jul 2009
• 1

 

[ericmark]

- Do you need to have an FCU above worktop for a dishwasher or can I put a single socket behind the cupboard next to it and simply plug it in ?

Not a requirement but if you have ever seen a washing machine when the weights have come lose you would not consider not having an isolator. It does not need to be fused as there is a fuse in the plug but of course is using 20A switches then only one socket per switch.

There does not seem much wrong with the rest but the Electrician will need to sign for design as well as installation and inspection and testing so get him to OK what you intend to do before you start.

 

[ericmark]

can't see how to delete post

 

[Steve]

Try this one:

Untitled

• Steve
• 14 Jul 2009
• 1

I have tidied up the right hand side.

Please try to redraw your diagram with straight lines.

 

[xerxes]

can't see how to delete post

I'm not sure why you want to delete your post, but you can use the edit facility to overwrite what you have written with something else (like 'post deleted').

OP: if the walls are a pain to chase, you could consider fixing battens and building board over the wall, with the back boxes fixed to the surface and the board cut out as appropriate. The top batten helps to support the wall cupboards, and the board provides a good surface for tiling.

 

[ian1234]

- Do you need to have an FCU above worktop for a dishwasher or can I put a single socket behind the cupboard next to it and simply plug it in ?

Not a requirement but if you have ever seen a washing machine when the weights have come lose you would not consider not having an isolator. It does not need to be fused as there is a fuse in the plug but of course is using 20A switches then only one socket per switch.

There does not seem much wrong with the rest but the Electrician will need to sign for design as well as installation and inspection and testing so get him to OK what you intend to do before you start.

Thanks for the response.

I've had the weights go a machine and I know what you mean!, I'll add a isolation switch on the washing machine/dryer but was hoping to avoid it on the dishwasher as I have easy access to the cupboard next to it and it won't move around like a washing machine.

I also take the point about running it by the electrician before chasing. I guess each has a "style" and would want to be happy with it all. At least I'll be able to show them the rough plan and make quoting easier.

cheers.

 

[ian1234]

can't see how to delete post

I'm not sure why you want to delete your post, but you can use the edit facility to overwrite what you have written with something else (like 'post deleted').

OP: if the walls are a pain to chase, you could consider fixing battens and building board over the wall, with the back boxes fixed to the surface and the board cut out as appropriate. The top batten helps to support the wall cupboards, and the board provides a good surface for tiling.

Got that one down as plan B but if the electrics layout is OK it's just one chase down the outer wall which I can handle.

 

[ian1234]

Try this one:

Untitled

• Steve
• 14 Jul 2009
• 1

I have tidied up the right hand side.

Please try to redraw your diagram with straight lines.

I was wondering about that bit!, I did it the way to avoid the extra chases down the wall but if it's much better practice then fair enough.

I need to get myself a better tool for drawing

 

[ian1234]

Updated version with straight lines!

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• ian1234
• 14 Jul 2009
• 1

 

[Steve]

Hurray! ms paint is the tool i use for drawing lol. simple and easy.

it will be a chore turning on your under-lights one by one. may i suggest a switch wired to the first JB, placed under the cupboard. This will then control all 4 lights.

 

[ian1234]

Hurray! ms paint is the tool i use for drawing lol. simple and easy.

it will be a chore turning on your under-lights one by one. may i suggest a switch wired to the first JB, placed under the cupboard. This will then control all 4 lights.

I wasn't going to bother because I didn't want another switch on view but putting it out of sight under the cabinet would work well. cheers.

I also have a teenage in the house that's allergic to turning lights off do you know how to sort that one out ?

 

[JohnD]

why do you want to hide your switches?

A good way to wire a kitchen is to run the ring (or radial) all round the wall, about 150mm above worktop height, with as many switches and sockets as you want. This is very economical in labour and materials. You can run up or down from the switches to outlets for cooker hoods and undercounter appliances. Allow for an outlet at every point where you expect to have an appliance, plus every point where you might want to have an appliance in future.

Remember you need sockets for your kettle, toaster, microwave, hoover, electric tin opener, mixer, smoothie-maker, phone charger, espresso machine, flat-screen TV, iron, radio, knife-sharpener, breadmaker, George Formby grill and lots of other things you haven't thought of yet. There are hardly any people who complain of having too many sockets, but millions of people who complain of too few.

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The isolators have got to be in plain view and easily accessible so you can use the in an emergency. Hiding them in a cupboard and burying them in tins and packets is not good enough.

 

[Spark123]

Reconsider what you are doing with the washer and dryer - they are both power hungry beasts and looking at your drawing you have them both fed from the same FCU?
In the origingal drawing you had them both fed from a double socket? That is also a bad idea!
The work you are carrying out is notifiable to your Local Authority Building Control under Part P of the building regulations too.

 

[ian1234]

Firstly, thanks again for everyone's input.

I have changed the washer/dryer bit.

I take your point about the switches and have added one for the dishwasher on the wall rather than the cupboard which could get cluttered.

My thoughts with the other switched was that they can be surface mounted (easier) above the cabinets and could be plain white switches opposed to the more expensive stainless steel ones I was going to use on the walls. I'm tempted to move the boiler one down to the wall though as I can see this being one that's important to have easy access to, wouldn't look cluttered and again could get something put in front of.

I think I've got a good enough starting point to get some quotes from. At the end of the day the electrician doing to work will probably tweak it to something he's comfortable to sign off.

Excluding the chasing and fitting of back boxes (And feeding of cables if I'm OK'd to do that) would you expect an electrician to complete the work in a day, including fitting the RCD board. The ceiling is also down so no access issues ?

Cheers,

Untitled

• ian1234
• 14 Jul 2009
• 1

 

[JohnD]

switches above cabinets will be OK in an emergency provided that the person in the kitchen is very tall. Children and many women will not be able to reach them. If they are out of sight, how will someone in a panic see them and know what they are for?

Over the life of the kitchen the extra cost of good-quality stainless switches will disappear. Do not be tempted to buy poor-quality accessories. Crabtree, MEM and MK are good. Unbranded DIY Shed accessories are built cheap to sell cheap.

p.s. use 35mm backboxes. 25mm ones are a few pence cheaper but will provide hours of fun trying to squeeze the cable and screws in.