Kitchen

[RF Lighting]

The switch is actually MK edge, but be warned, the prices for that stuff will make your eyes water

I bet.

They probably share the same terminals as the rest of the range though.

Yeah, the actual switch modules are just the standard 20A DP grid switches.

 

[ub9533]

Wiggles makes me laugh all the help you get here bunch of diy nots i am electrictian 23 years kitchen socket ring should be rcd whatever . these All boards now a days are dual rcds were all circuits are rcd protected so rf lighting you would rather a radial to a ring main ?????
if so you are no electrician!!!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

ub9533 - you are a tiresome, unpleasant and ignorant little fool - please go away and never return.

 

[ub9533]

rf lighting is high on something all circuits in new build or rewire according to 17th edition are must have dual rcd boards with rcbo smoke alarm all sockets must be rcd protected fact from 15th edition to 17 th any electrician who says different is dangerous.

 

[ColJack]

23 years as an electrician in which country? english doesn't see to be your first language judging by that last reply.

rings were introduced to save copper during the war..

no one is saying that the kitchen sockets should not be on a ring, we are saying that they CAN be not on a ring, a radial is a valid choice and the rest of the world seems to agree..

we're also not talking about kitchen sockets for general use here, we are talking about specific circuits for relatively high current using equipment with sockets that are not readily accessible and that are labled for the conection of a specific piece of equipment.

as for rather not having switches above counters, I see it this way.. if the socket is behind the appliance then it needs a switch above the counter, if the socket is in an adjacent cupboard then it doesn't..
it's an access thing so you don't have to pull the appliance out to isolate it.

 

[flameport]

all circuits in new build or rewire according to 17th edition are must have dual rcd boards

Wrong. No requirement for all circuits to have RCD protection, and nothing to state dual RCD boards are needed either.

with rcbo smoke alarm

Wrong, and a smoke alarm on it's own RCBO is a poor design.

all sockets must be rcd protected fact from 15th edition to 17 th

Wrong, RCDs are not required for all socket outlets in any of those editions.

 

[ub9533]

ub9533 - you are a tiresome, unpleasant and ignorant little fool - please go away and never return.

I am trying to give best advice to wiggles rather than your useles comment and knowledge!!

 

[ColJack]

rf lighting is high on something all circuits in new build or rewire according to 17th edition are must have dual rcd boards with rcbo smoke alarm all sockets must be rcd protected fact from 15th edition to 17 th any electrician who says different is dangerous.

really? well then I guess we all read the regs wrong then?

411.3.3 Additional protection

In a.c. systems, additional protection by means of an RCD in accordance with Regulation 415.1 shall be provided for:

(i) socket-outlets with a rated current not exceeding 20A that are for use by ordinary persons and are intended for general use, and
(ii) mobile equipment with a current rating not exceeding 32A for use outdoors.

An exception to (i) is permitted for:
(a) socket-outlets for use under the supervision of skilled or instructed persons, e.g. in some commercial or industrial locations, or
(b) a specific labeled or otherwise suitably identified socket-outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment.

may I draw your attention to the sections in bold..

also, the 16th edition was even more lenient requiring only that sockets that could reasonably be expected to feed portable outdoor equipment be RCD protected..
which was then of course open to interpretation of what sockets could reasonably be expected to feed outdoor equipment.. the general concensus was that the ground floor was RCD protected while the upstairs didn't have to be..

 

[ub9533]

sorry but we are 17 th edition now and are you saying that a socket ring main should not be rcd protected!!!!

 

[sparkwright]

rf lighting is high on something all circuits in new build or rewire according to 17th edition are must have dual rcd boards with rcbo smoke alarm all sockets must be rcd protected fact from 15th edition to 17 th any electrician who says different is dangerous.

Can't someone get rid of this berk?
He talks cobblers.
His posts are inaccurate and misinformed.

 

[riveralt]

all circuits in new build or rewire according to 17th edition are must have dual rcd boards with rcbo smoke alarm .

No it doesn't - show which part of the 17th edition says that.

Installations should be designed so that a fault on one RCD protected circuit doesn't affect all the circuits. RCBO's can be used but you can have a combination of both RCD and non protected circuits.

As for smoke alarm circuits:
They should be linked so activation of one will activate all.
Permanently wired from the CU or supplied from local regular used lighting circuit.
Have a standby power supply.

Nothing about RCBO.

Which version of the 17th edition are using - one that is 23 years old?

Oh I took out the bold - doesn't suite you.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The oven and microwave are together, so I'm thinking they could share a radial wired in 4mm on a 32amp mcb.

But what does your electrician think?

He will be the one certifying that he was responsible for the design, construction and testing of the installation, so it's what he thinks that matters.

Does this seem a reasonable solution? There are two spare ways on the RCD side of the CU to support these new radials.

Why not let your electrician do the job you are paying her to do. He is the competent one.

Just to clarify, I won't be doing anything - the electrician will be doing it all but I want to be sure that a proper job is done.

If you don't trust him to do a proper job then find someone else.

In fact, trying to tell him how to do his job because you asked about things on an internet DIY forum is pretty much guaranteed to p*** him off so much that you probably won't get a good job done.

As ColJack identified, the whole purpose of using 4mm and 32amp mcb's was to get away from being limited to 20 amps at each circuit. Each circuit would draw approx 26 amps, not the full 32.

If the circuits were on 20 amp mcb's I'm going to spend a lot of time wandering into the garage to reset them

Don't worry - your electrician knows the characteristics of overcurrent devices, and about the cyclic loads in kitchens - just let him get on with it.

I've also been told that above bench switches are not required for the appliances - I'm in favour of them though as I don't want to have to empty the cupboard just to switch off an appliance when it burts into flames.

Then tell your electrician that's what you want him to do.

And look into buying better quality appliances - they should not burst into flames.

Grid switches were exactly what I had in mind.

Then put them on the spec you give to your electrician.

It's not a problem that one grid switch may switch from more than one circuit supply is it?

Your electrician will know the regulations concerning that, and he will ensure that his work complies.

What options are there on what can be siwtched?

Anything up to the rated load for the switches - usually 10A or 20A.

I'm thinking the grid switch could switch an unswitched socket or an unswitched FSU - is there any other way it could be done using grid switches?

Flex outlet plates or BS 546 sockets, but then you'd need fuse modules in the grid plate.

 

[ub9533]

sorry but you guys are a bunch of diy nots i don't think anyone of you are an electrician if you were you would now what i awas talking about

 

[ColJack]

sorry but we are 17 th edition now and are you saying that a socket ring main should not be rcd protected!!!!

it would depend on a number of things..

if the cables are installed in a manner that doesn't require RCD protection, and that the sockets themselves were clearly labled for the conection of one or more specific pieces of equipment, then no the sockets don't need RCD protecting.

in a general purpous ring or radial, yes they need protecting because you have no way of knowing which one the toaster will be plugged into before being dropped in the bath, but for a specific radial for just the washing machine and dryer for example then no RCD is required other than for cable reasons.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

23 years as an electrician in which country? english doesn't see to be your first language judging by that last reply.

Maybe that's why he can't read 411.3.3...

no one is saying that the kitchen sockets should not be on a ring, we are saying that they CAN be not on a ring, a radial is a valid choice and the rest of the world seems to agree..

IMO rings are not the optimal design for kitchen circuits, as you often get a concentration of high loads in close proximity, and it's harder to balance both legs. No such worries with radials.

as for rather not having switches above counters, I see it this way.. if the socket is behind the appliance then it needs a switch above the counter, if the socket is in an adjacent cupboard then it doesn't..
it's an access thing so you don't have to pull the appliance out to isolate it.

You may well have to be careful saying that you must have isolation switches - I'm pretty sure that grid modules don't comply with the regulations for such switches.