Lead solder on potable water

[dianef]

Quite a few of you are sticking for the original installer and feel I am being vindictive or whatever.

I'll just set out some points so you can see where I am coming from.

I paid for a professional installer. I didn't quibble on price and certainly didn't pay for the cheapest boiler or the cheapest installer (price over 2k not quite in British Gas land but not far off either).

I don't believe it was a genuine mistake and even if it was its no excuse - man presents himself as competent and carries a card that sets certain expectations. He came with a fully qualified apprentice and had both lead and lead free in the van. If between them they can't do simple stuff like choose solder on coloured reels, there are other less skilled jobs which may suit better.

Also, a number of you feel that it doesn't matter, its just a stupid rule and I am worrying about nothing. I don't see why a professional installer should cherry pick which rules he's going to comply to and which are not relevant to him. IMHO, it devalues your profession to think its ok to do whatever you personally think is right. My electrician keeps moaning about OTT regulations but he still fits isolator switches on bathroom fans, uses IP fittings near water and rated/tested cables. He doesn't just grab whatever's in the van or cheapest and shove it in. I'd rather give business to people like that over the likes of this plumber. How is that mean?

 

[Dan Robinson]

In principle rules are rules.

But I bet you have in the past broken the speed limit for some reason justifiable to your self. Does that mean you should have your livelihood threatened and a great additional expense levied? No you might had gotten yourself 3 points and a £60 fine IF you were caught.

To teach him a lesson, I'll tell his boss and get him to bring someone else to rip the pipework out and start again. And then I'll want them to check his previous work and correct that too

Is nothing more than vindictive and disproportionate to the "offense".

 

[cantaloup63]

Op - just reading your opening post again. Did you actually see him use the lead on a wholesome water pipe joint, or was it just lying around nearby and you jumped to a conclusion?

If you saw him use it, what did he say when you asked him and subsequently told him that this was not satisfactory as far as you were concerned and that you would like the sections replaced?

 

[dcawkwell]

Quite a few of you are sticking for the original installer and feel I am being vindictive or whatever.

I'll just set out some points so you can see where I am coming from.

I paid for a professional installer. I didn't quibble on price and certainly didn't pay for the cheapest boiler or the cheapest installer (price over 2k not quite in British Gas land but not far off either).

I don't believe it was a genuine mistake and even if it was its no excuse - man presents himself as competent and carries a card that sets certain expectations. He came with a fully qualified apprentice and had both lead and lead free in the van. If between them they can't do simple stuff like choose solder on coloured reels, there are other less skilled jobs which may suit better.

Also, a number of you feel that it doesn't matter, its just a stupid rule and I am worrying about nothing. I don't see why a professional installer should cherry pick which rules he's going to comply to and which are not relevant to him. IMHO, it devalues your profession to think its ok to do whatever you personally think is right. My electrician keeps moaning about OTT regulations but he still fits isolator switches on bathroom fans, uses IP fittings near water and rated/tested cables. He doesn't just grab whatever's in the van or cheapest and shove it in. I'd rather give business to people like that over the likes of this plumber. How is that mean?

Absolutely. If you paid top dollar for boiler and installation. You want
a top job. Don't know the boiler you had installed but if you were paying
me £2k for a boiler install you would get a boiler installed carefully
and with all the bells and whistles.

If you are a landlord wanting a cheap boiler replacement the job is
cut to price. Still doesn't mean I use lead on water people drink.
But then again if the pipes to the house are lead the regulations
become silly.

 

[dianef]

Dan, I have 3 children who are 4 and under and I happen to think that lead in drinking water is not harmless for them. The man knew my circumstances. If like most people, I couldn't tell what he's doing then he'd be taking away the choice from me.

Taking your analogy, I do break the speed limit from time to time, everyone does, but if I get caught doing it then I get points or disqualified - as majority thinks speeding endangers me and others. If I need to drive for my livelihood, I should take that into consideration when speeding. I don't see it should be everyone else's responsibility to cut me corners so I can carry on doing what I want.

 

[dianef]

Op - just reading your opening post again. Did you actually see him use the lead on a wholesome water pipe joint, or was it just lying around nearby and you jumped to a conclusion?

If you saw him use it, what did he say when you asked him and subsequently told him that this was not satisfactory as far as you were concerned and that you would like the sections replaced?

I saw him use it after he's done all the pipework - there was no lead free in the house, it was in his van. I asked him why he's using it and he said its ok, it doesn't matter as its only central heating. I pointed out he's plumbed hot and cold into kichen pipework and he turned all sheepish and said he made a mistake.

 

[cantaloup63]

I saw him use it after he's done all the pipework - there was no lead free in the house, it was in his van. I asked him why he's using it and he said its ok, it doesn't matter as its only central heating. I pointed out he's plumbed hot and cold into kichen pipework and he turned all sheepish and said he made a mistake.

And has he agreed to rectify the mistake?

 

[Dan Robinson]

So you think doing 35 in a 30 zone deserve a ban from driving - because your planned punishment for this guy is equivalent IMO.

As has been mentioned, your children are exposed to far more damaging pollutants walking down the high street than they will drinking water from a copper pipe soldered with leaded solder.

It will be interesting to hear exactly what pipes were being worked on?


As I implied before; I agree it is wrong of him to have done so (assuming it was a pipe for wholesome water); but your plan of action is totally disproportionate.

 

[Nige F]

It will be interesting to hear exactly what pipes were being worked on?


.

Ones that are in a house that was plumbed before the lead free rules came in - with dozens of leaded solder joints already in situ

 

[cantaloup63]

24 hours ago (it's 10.42pm as I type) the op posted a query about an installation that had happened during the day. Regardless of what all contributors have said about how serious/dangerous this is, we have ascertained that the plumber in question has admitted that he made a mistake.

The only thing that needs to be determined now is whether he has agreed to rectify it. It would have been the obvious thing for the op to have asked, and one can only assume from her comments that she has asked him and he has declined. There can be no other reason for her to get his boss involved at this stage, surely

 

[gasbanni]

It's against the water regs for starters, dont know if there any prosecutions but he shouldnt have done it...........end of.

Just tell him you want it replacing ...........he can go to the plumbers merchants on his horse.

Arguments saying it wont hurt are hot air. Idiot. Why couldnt he have left the water pipe sweating up till he had chance to go to the merchants.
Because he couldnt be bothered thats why.........cutting corners is the sign of a good tradesman ? I think NOT.

 

[gas112]

So your worried about the lead that is in the solder.
The boiler will have brass fittings in it this brass will contain up to 2% lead in it that will leech out are you going to contact the boiler manufacturer to ask for them to redesign the boiler.

Have a look at the link below our OP has a split personality and is also jesteh(jester) Then look at his history in the past month he has fitted a heatin and so has his plumber.
TROLL just looking to start debates but not clever enough to remember what he put


//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=276616

 

[JonasX]

Firstly, I always use unleaded solder on water pipes. But I always use leaded solder on gas and heating pipes which are 95% of the joints in an average house. Leaded solder flows better and produces a better joint.

Many use leaded solder because leaded solder makes a neater joint and takes well. Lead-free using powerflux runs all over the pipe and produce a poor looking joint with solder tears all over and the solder can run out too much leave a thin film of solder in the joint. A neighbor had a weep on a lead-free copper joint which held for a year. His 44 year old leaded solder copper pipe joints are still sound.

What flux do most use to stop this overrunning of lead-free solder?

 

[doitall]

Best flux is Yorkshire traditional, but I doubt most mordern plumbers could use it.

Get yourself a pot of Laco jonasX.

Flux the pipe only and wipe the excess off with a damp cloth then solder.

Oh, and heat the damn fitting not the pipe.

 

[bernardgreen]

The risks ( perceived ) form lead are so high that leaded solder is banned from all electronic equipment... except for medical equipment and some aviation equipment. Reason for the exceptions is that failure of a joint in medical or aviation equipment could put life at risk. Is that an admission that lead free solder does not make joints as sound as leaded solder.

The amount of lead that comes from a soldered pipe joint is in-significant compared to lead from other sources. But the ban shows the nanny state is looking after the population.