LED Driver advice.

[julesg007]

Hi all,

Would be very grateful for some advice concerning purchasing a LED driver.

I've recently purchased 4 x 3w (single bulb) 12v spot lights, submersible for use in a fountain and would like to know the correct LED driver to purchase. the lights are via eBay and are coming in from the Far East!

Do I need a driver with an output 12w or something with a slightly higher output?, am sort of thinking a 12w driver would be working at its maximum output all of the time it's on, whereas, say something like a 20w driver would only be working at just over 50% of maximum capacity.

Not worked with LED lighting before so could I respectfully request that the answers are kept fairly simplistic.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Lectrician]

You say 12v?

LED drivers are constant current devices, providing a steady current of either 350mA or 700mA, adjusting the voltage to achieve this.

Are you sure your LED lamps do not include a built in driver, and require a standard 12v supply?

Link to lamps?

 

[JohnW2]

You say 12v? LED drivers are constant current devices, providing a steady current of either 350mA or 700mA, adjusting the voltage to achieve this. Are you sure your LED lamps do not include a built in driver, and require a standard 12v supply?

I think there's potential for considerable confusion over terminology here. There are countless things out there called "LED drivers" which are, in fact, constant-voltage sources (which I presume is what you mean by a 'standard 12v supply') - and which therefore rely on there being current control of some sort (even if only a resistor) within the lamp(s).

Kind Regards, John

 

[Lectrician]

Which is why asked for a link to the lamp. However, a true DRIVER will be constant current.

 

[JohnW2]

Which is why asked for a link to the lamp. However, a true DRIVER will be constant current.

I realise that is technically correct - but, as I said, a lot of the terminology in use out there is not as correct as you. Just look at the TLC site/catalogue - most of the things they sell as "LED Drivers" are, in fact, constant-voltage sources.

Kind Regards, John

 

[julesg007]

Thanks for all the replies.

Here is a link to a current eBay listing for the lights I have purchased.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3w-LED-En...t=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item35be911ac5

Here is a breif listing description; 3W Underwater LED multicolor flood Light 1X3W Swimming Pool Lamp Waterproof 12V IP68

I have re-read the listing and it does state that the lights come with a driver (which I hadn't noticed before), but will have to see if they actually do or not as the seller has in an e-mail reminded me that they are 12v, so that seems to indicate they won't come with a driver.

So just in case they don't come with a driver, but I will ask them, back to my original question!

 

[JohnW2]

Here is a link to a current eBay listing for the lights I have purchased. ..... Here is a breif listing description; 3W Underwater LED multicolor flood Light 1X3W Swimming Pool Lamp Waterproof 12V IP68 ... I have re-read the listing and it does state that the lights come with a driver (which I hadn't noticed before), but will have to see if they actually do or not ...

The repeated references to a '12V DC input voltage' very much suggests that a 12V source is all that is required, and that is probably what the 'driver' they mention is. However, I would personally be very hesitant to buy anything like that direct from China, not the least because I would hate to think what (and how safe) this 'driver' might be. There are plenty of reputable UK suppliers of these sort of products, albeit probably not quite so 'dirt cheap'!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Lectrician]

The supplied driver will more than likely be 12v dc in, constant current out. You would need a 12v dc power supply to power the driver, the driver feeding the fitting. Over complicated.

They do an option to have a driver for 230v use too in their listing (85-265v ac).

 

[julesg007]

Hi John,

Thanks for the reply.

Did think hard about buying something like this from China, but my brother in law has been using something very similar from China, without any problems at all.

I can see your concerns about cost and quality, but I have seen lights being sold on eBay from a Far East seller for one fifth of the cost of the same lights that were for sale via a UK retailer!, so some times cheap doesn't necessarily mean nasty but cost savings as no middle man or UK retailer price mark ups!

I will ask the seller if the lights do have an in built drivers or comes with one but was going to hold off buying anything until I have the lights in hand and see what sort of instructions they come with.

 

[JohnW2]

The supplied driver will more than likely be 12v dc in, constant current out. You would need a 12v dc power supply to power the driver, the driver feeding the fitting. Over complicated.

Yes, it may be - the OP clearly needs to check. If you're right then, as you say, such a 'two-stage' process is unnecessarily complicated.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I can see your concerns about cost and quality, but I have seen lights being sold on eBay from a Far East seller for one fifth of the cost of the same lights that were for sale via a UK retailer!, so some times cheap doesn't necessarily mean nasty but cost savings as no middle man or UK retailer price mark ups!

That's all true - but, unfortunately, some 'cheap' is very nasty, and there's usually no way of knowing which is which until it's too late.

How many of these lights are you proposing to buy? Unless it's a lot, you probably wouldn't have to pay Customs Duty, but you might well end up having to pay Import VAT. There is obviously also the theoretical risk (unfortunately {in many senses} unlikely in practice!) that if the goods were intercepted and found to be 'illegal' (e.g. falsified CE markings), they could just be confiscated and denied entry to the UK.

Kind Regards, John

 

[julesg007]

I sincerely hope that the items are not cheap and nasty rubbish but I am more than happy to let everyone know when I get the items.

I also hope that the items do not have any falsified safety markings for obvious reasons.

On a plus side as the items have been paid for via Paypal I do get the buyer protection so should I have any issues I can always seek a refund from Paypal, off course knowing if I have to to duties or VAT I won't get that back if paid.

With regards to VAT, I'm over the threshold so I'll just have to see what happens as it depends on what the seller puts on the customs declaration.

When buying the lights I opted for 12v over 220v mains as I thought that would be safer as the lights are being used in a fountain just in case something goes wrong.

 

[JohnW2]

With regards to VAT, I'm over the threshold so I'll just have to see what happens as it depends on what the seller puts on the customs declaration.

It never ceases to amaze me how little apparent policing there is. Over the years, I've received goodness know what through the post with customs declarations from far-off sellers claiming that the package contained 'gifts' of the value $5 or $10 (with the postage often being more than that!) - but without officialdom having developed any interest.

When buying the lights I opted for 12v over 220v mains as I thought that would be safer as the lights are being used in a fountain just in case something goes wrong.

I would do the same, particularly if buying from an 'unknown' source.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I sincerely hope that the items are not cheap and nasty rubbish

They are cheap.

They are on eBay.

They are Chinese..


Good luck.

 

[ericmark]

The problem is if customs do take an interest the Post Office also charges as well so have had items charged 20p VAT with a £1.20 Post Office handling charge added on.

The word Driver seems to mean a DC rather than AC supply but it could also mean fixed current or even current transformers although only seen latter with aircraft ground lighting.

I have looked at MR16 LED lamps and most do not seem to mind what polarity or if DC or AC but some do and however much one looks at the adds no real answer seems to be given so one has to wait until they arrive.

After an expensive problem when returning items from China for repair including a £60 customs bill I keep away from items from China costing any more than £5.

P.S. Customs bill was from China not UK they charged customs duty to return items for repair!