My replacement suggestion was not to use matching, but to put something different in around those two doors.
As long as the profile was basically the same I doubt anybody would ever notice.
Yes.
Light switch doesn't fit ideas
- Thread starter mic2876uk
- Start date
As long as the profile was basically the same I doubt anybody would ever notice.
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You raise an interesting matter.
Bunnings, or anyone else, is entitled to sell any product which is "legal for sale". For a Government to prevent anyone from doing so would be a "restriction of trade".
However, a manufacturer is not obliged to allow their products to be sold at places where they deem it to be "inappropriate" for any reason.
If you look at the electrical related products offered by Bunnings, you may note that none of them are manufactured by Clipsal, since Clipsal chooses to sell their products only through Electrical Wholesalers.
(Unfortunately, Bunnings does carry "DETA" products, which appear to be [poor] imitations of many Clipsal products and are unlikely to be used by any actual "tradesman".)
Bunnings does have a "Trade" department and gives a discount to those with appropriate trade identification.
However, most electrical wholesalers and their counter staff seem quite happy to sell any product which is in stock or can be obtained by special order to anyone who requests them.
After all, a sale is a sale!
Also, many items are available "on-line".
While an Australian retailer may sell electrical (and plumbing) products, they may not give advice as how they may/should be used. There is often a sign with words to the effect that "Electrical products must only be installed by a licensed electrician." and a similar injunction is often found on the packaging of many products.
While (in Australia) only a licensed plumber is supposed to do plumbing work, similar comments apply to plumbing supplies sold by Bunnings and other "hardware stores".
It is interesting to note that while in Australia homeowners are not allowed to carry out electrical work in their own homes, in New Zealand (which operates under the same electrical Standards as Australia) the Government issues instructions as to what work may be carried out by homeowners and the standards to be observed - which can be found if you search for
"NEW ZEALAND ELECTRICAL CODE OF PRACTICE FOR HOMEOWNER/OCCUPIER’S ELECTRICAL WIRING WORK IN DOMESTIC INSTALLATIONS".
As to "Who is allowed to use it", it is not the sellers responsibility as to how any product which he sells is used.
There have been discussions in this country as to the sometimes bizarre consequences which can stem from "regulations" which are ostensibly intended to protect the public from the activities of "unqualified" individuals.
One such example of over 20 years ago were Queensland regulations which prevented anyone except a "Qualified Electrician" from replacing the 230 V plug on any device.
Electronic repair organisations were quick to point out that this would prevent an electronic technician deemed capable of working on TV receivers of the day, which incorporated High Voltage supplies operating in the region of 25 to 30 kV, from replacing the 230 V plug and lead connecting the device to the "mains".
That I realised, but I was perhaps a bit surprised that a government which had introduced 'draconian' restrictions as to who could actually use certain products hadn't also restricted who could buy/posses them.
Exactly, and it would be unreasonable to expect a seller to be able to control (or necessarily even know) how products were going to be used (and by whom). However, even here there are plenty of products whose availability is restricted to those legally allowed to possess and use them (guns, explosives, poisons, radioactive substances, prescription medicines etc. etc.).
I'm sure there have been! As you must realise, most of the world probably feels that the Australian laws/regulation in this respect are 'a bit extreme' (or far worse than that!) and probably also 'unnecessary'. The historical American experience with alcohol is one illustration of what can happen with 'blanket bans'!
Given that, as you say, these regulations were intended to 'protect the public', are there any convincing statistics to indicate that the public have been appreciably more protected (i.e.less injuries/deaths etc.) since these regulations were introduced?
If one looks only at deaths (which I accept is only part of the problem - but is about the only thing for which we have even half-reliable statistics), there are now so few domestic deaths due to electricity in the UK (only a couple of dozen or so per year, a good few of which have nothing to do with the quality of electrical work) that the scope for any Australia-like restrictions to 'improve' the situation are extremely limited. What was the 'pre-regulation' situation in Australia?
Kind Regards, John
Electricians had no laws to force people to employ them.
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As I would have thought was apparent from context, I was asking what was the 'pre-regulation' situation in Australia as regards the ('baseline') level of domestic electricity-related injuries and deaths.
That may now be hard to determine, since South Australia was the last to introduce such regulations a very few years after the end of WWII.
A better comparison may be to compare statistics for Australia with those of New Zealand - since both countries use the same electrical standards and New Zealand allows the homeowner to carry out electrical work while Australia does not.
However, note this from the NZ document referred to earlier:-
"The testing and certification of electrical work carried out by the owner of an electrical installation in accordance with this code must be undertaken by a licensed electrical inspector. The inspector will inspect and test the work in accordance with NZS 3019 and must include a random selection of socket-outlets and light switches and light fittings, all socket-outlets rated above 10 A, all permanently connected appliances and all fittings, electrical appliances and light fittings associated with damp locations. Upon completion, the inspector will certify and liven the work."
Of course, there is now no such testing procedure available to any homeowner in Australia who does do any such work!
Quite true.
Oh - I didn't realise that it was anything like that long ago.
Yes, in that case that sounds like a more practical comparison - although, in view of what you go on to say, even in NZ the situation with regard to 'DIY' electrical work is actually much more 'overseen' than it is (for most work) in, say, the UK.
Anyway, do you have any idea of the answer or, at least, know where we could find relevant statistics, as regards the numbers of domestic electricity-related deaths in Australia and in NZ?
Perhaps more interesting and relevant would be to compare Australia and UK. Even for deaths, reliable UK data is hard to come by, but it seems that deaths due to domestic electrocution in the UK are probably under 30 per year - with all but the most major of DIY electrical work effectively totally unregulated. Pro-rata to the populations, that equates to under 11 deaths per year for Australia. Do you know if the actual number of domestic deaths by electrocution is Australia (with it's 'draconian' approach to DIY electrical work) is appreciably less than 11 per year?
That, of course, is one of the problems. For example, I presume that 'DIYers' intending to undertake electrical work in Australia must be very reluctant to seek any expert advice, in private let alone public.
Kind Regards, John
In the past I have attempted to look up such statistics and they are available broken down by States and related to population.
I will have another look in the near future.
My recollection is that these statistics showed that the majority of such deaths were to electrical workers - on the job.
Here are two references which I have not yet had time to examine closely.
http://www.ncis.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Electrocution-Deaths.pdf
https://www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/2b038620-7e69-4378-8141-558e6990eeee/injcat99.pdf.aspx?inline=true
I will have another look in the near future.
My recollection is that these statistics showed that the majority of such deaths were to electrical workers - on the job.
Here are two references which I have not yet had time to examine closely.
http://www.ncis.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Electrocution-Deaths.pdf
https://www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/2b038620-7e69-4378-8141-558e6990eeee/injcat99.pdf.aspx?inline=true
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Thanks. I hope the stats are easier to navigate (and understand) than the UK ones!
Yes, that's one of the complications. Here we have separately recorded stats for 'work-related' electrical deaths, but they don't seem to add up when one also looks at total deaths and 'domestic' ones!
Of course, although I will be very interested to see any hard statistics you can find, my question was, in at least some senses, rhetorical - in that, if it's true that the Australian equivalent of UK domestic electrical deaths is 'under 11 per year' (a good few of which are probably in no way related to the quality of electrical work), there's really no way that your 'draconian' measures have resulted in your having 'appreciably less' such deaths than we do. OK - even one death is one death too many, but ..... !!
... to put all this in context, in the UK there are 60+ deaths per year due to falls from ladders and 600+ deaths due to falls down stairs.
Kind Regards, John
They were much bandied about in the run-up to / the early days of Part P.
Can't remember my source.
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