Miele W828

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6K1 is an "old style" (and simple) electronic component called a relay.

It's the top LHS orange rectangular device in this pic: http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd257/harrykiri/MieleW828RelayBoard.jpg

It's used to reverse the direction of rotation of the drum during the wash/rinse cycles. It does this by reversing the polarity of the voltage applied to the DC drum motor. The associated cct. board (EDPW) watches how long the drum rotates in one direction, then sends a signal to 6K1 (in the EL200D) to tell it to reverse the drum direction. 6K1 is like two switches that operate at the same time. In this case, the contacts on one of the switches overheated and melted together, which resulted in no voltage sent to the drum motor, together with a near short circuit being connected to the power supply. I was very lucky the SCR's didn't fail as well - an outcome normally expected in these circumstances.

Unfortunately, the technique to remove the relay from the PCB requires a fair bit of skill in "desoldering", or tracks on the board can be badly damaged. However that pales into insignificance, compared to the skill required to remove the SCR's (in this case in the form of SMD's or "surface mounted devices"). I was very relieved when the SCR's proved to be OK as I have neither the skill nor the special tools to replace them. I guess I'd have gone out and purchased an SMD removal kit ... although unlikely to use it again any time soon.

Yes, the time taken to pursue this to the end was more than I ever expected, but I was given renewed purpose by the appearance of more posters following Beano & I. Apart from saving my own machine from landfill (I was about to scrap the Miele, due to the extreme cost of parts), others will find this site and thread, so the many hours spent developing the partial circuit diagram hasn't been wasted. My only regret is that the circuit came too late to benefit everyone who contributed in the last couple of months :(
 
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Hurrah! Our washing machine is also working again....

We sent the EL200D board to this guy to get it repaired, http://shop.ebay.co.uk/merchant/moe_403
His name is Jan. He was very helpful and communicated well in English.
We received the repaired board 5 working days after it was sent. Not bad considering it went UK->Germany->UK.
All up the board repair cost £55, including postage from the UK to Germany.

The board had the same problem as described by HarryKiri, the relay (6k1 the motor polarity relay) and the fuse. Must be a common fault. Anyway, our German eBay friend did a great job and we were happy to pay him to do that. Like the others on this thread we were near to junking our machine because of the cost of repair and yet we have managed to save it. I really hope others will do likewise. You can buy new boards from Miele for not too much or get them repaired if you can't do it yourself. It makes absolutely no sense to me that hundreds of machines like these are going into landfill for the sake of two small components which probably cost under 5 pounds. These machines are beautifully made and lets face it, with the way things are going in the world something has to change! :D
 
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I certainly didn't expect my query to result in a comprehensive master class for repairing Miele washing machines. The outcome must be very valuable to anyone with similar problems. Although in my case it turned out to be simply the brushes, it does expose other potential areas of failure with the appropriate remedies. Thank you all contributors. Let's hope a few less Mieles go to landfill. Incidentally having had problems with both Hotpoint and Bosch machines in the past, I will stick to Miele especially as I now have 2 of them!
 
I cut away 6K1's plastic housing sufficiently to get a view of the epicentre of the fault :)

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd257/harrykiri/EL200D6K1RelayContacts04.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd257/harrykiri/EL200D6K1RelayContacts02.jpg

What a mess!

I suspect that many EL200D faults will be attributable to the failure of this relay. I will give some thought to how to reduce arcing across these contacts when I get more time.

Given this relay was the cause of failure of two machines at least, in this thread, 6K1 and the "micro fuse" should be the first two items to be suspected in EL200D board failures in any Miele washing machine variant. Not forgetting brushes can cause similar symptoms.
 
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Hello everyone
I am new on this forum and thanks you all for the information.
I had the same problem whith a miele w866 whith a ep200c pcb.
In my case i have solved the problem with an external relay (that i found in my "scrab-material")soldered with litle leads from the relay-pins to the pcb-holes.First i take the bad relay easyli away whith a normal soldertool and a litle nife placed into the relay-pcb line and warm up the solderpoints one by one quickly,it takes some time but it works.At the end i fixed de relay with a normal plasic "strip" to the rubber hose near the pcb and it works great and no cost or times-waste at all.
After replacing the pcb-fuse by an other (also a lead-one) the problem was solved and the machine works fine again almost zerocost!
 
Our washing machine failed again today - but just a simple broken drive belt this time which was quickly and easily diagnosed.

The cost? AUS$71 approx, which IMHO is outrageous for a drive belt when compared to some other machines (but not unexpected pricing from Miele).

In the 10 months since I repaired our machine, there have been a couple of failures of the 6.3 Amp fuse (that is now housed in an external inline fuseholder that is easy for me to get to in seconds). My assumption is that these fuse failures may have been caused by unintentionally slightly overloading our machine. On the other hand, perhaps it may be motor brushes getting ever closer to their replacement time ..... no worries as long as it's fuse failures, SCR's are another matter entirely :D

In a stroke of luck, I just came across what looks like a full Miele Service Manual in PDF form (I haven't had time to look at it in depth but did notice a basic description of how pulse width modulation is used for the DC motor control). Sadly, the Service Manual is *not* for the W828, but there will no doubt be areas of similarity which will provide general help to many other Miele machines including the W828. The manual is currently downloadable from here:

www.cagrimmett.com/justanswer/W1113tech.pdf

The service manual is specifically intended for the following Miele washing machines:

W1113, 1119, 1203, 1213, 1215

For posters who may have found the thread lengthy and skipped to this final post, here (again) is my link to the derived general schematic for the W828 motor drive - which is central to the problem referred to in this thread.

LINK TO GENERAL W828 MOTORDRIVE SCHEMATIC:

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd257/harrykiri/EL200DCircuitDiagram.jpg
 
Same problem here, thanks for your help, changed fuse & relay, hope the miele will wash again, have to try this evening.

Take a look at this butifull little (burned) thing!


O sorry, a 200 D Card on a W838 Miele..

 
:(

New problem here...

Tried the "fixed" EL200 D board this evening, nothing burnt, water runned throught, could see it the drum getting filled, but after a while, a red led the one down & right, close by the "PC" sign, flashed, and the leds pannel went straight to "drain"; the machine started draining for a short moment, whithout pumping all the water out. No washing at all...

The led flashing, close by the "PC" sign is the water intake default sign, meanless, the water flows just fine...

And it's my Ex's washing machine....
:evil:

To make sure about my repairs, relay & fuse, I tried a "essorage" in french, don't know the english world, and the motor runned just fine up to the 1400 RPMs. Yep, dude, I made it!

So, the new relay & fuse did THAT job, the motor is fine, so what's the heck or "putain de merde, c'est quoi ce bordel!!"

---------

To make my mind clear, I tried again, logging the time, at the begining of a cycle, between the moment water comes in and the one the red light flashes: --> always 30 seconds..

Hu, sounds like the machine doesn't detect the water level.

So tried again to "over"fill the drum, with succes, could go over the middle of the window...

--------

So, I beg you, the Miele's Gurus, would you please tell me if you never heard about this clue? As you took this washing apart, maybe you know the place of a kind of water detector...

Please, I'm in a hurry to help my Ex to get her panties lean again!

Thanx for reply & hello from Olivier, Nice, France.
 
Finaly, we've succes here!

Forgot to re-plug the presssure switch hose to the other board (the hose goess through a 2 cm diameter hole on the EL200 board).

I would like to repeat again "THANK YOU" from France!!!

Buying a brand new washing machine is not a big deal, but a DIY repair is the best!!
 
I have exactly the same problem as described by the various posters here with a Miele W827. I found that the fuse described was indeed blown, and the reverse direction relay not switching reliably. So I replaced both, reassembled, turned on ready to receive adoring congratulations from the wife and was hugely disappointed to find the problem unchanged. :(

I have tested resistance between brushes, which seems OK, therefore I do not think they are a problem (but I do not have a powerful DC supply to try driving the motor with it). Also, looking at them they have plenty of meat left on them.

Also, since trying after assembly I took the board el200D board back out, and found that the fuse is still intact.

2 possible next steps 1) change brushes anyway 2) send the el200D off to Jan Jan the repairman (as mentioned in previous postings)

I don't know whether any of the original posters are still reading this, but I would be very grateful for any suggestions.

Thanks Pete
 
Finally, success here with our W827 as well. I removed the brush holder module on the front of the module to check out what it does, replaced it, paying special attention to the correct location of the 4 spade connectors, and checked out all the connections from the el200D end of the connectors -- resistance across brushes, across stator windings, through the anti vibration device etc. When I put it all back together it worked!! I can only assume one of the spade connectors was not located properly.

I have to say this thread is a wonderful resource for anybody with a similar Miele Washer. Many thanks to all the contributors above.

I also discovered that the strange elongated component mulled over above by Harry Kiri is the drum motor stator windings (electromagnet). The are connected with one pole between pins 5 - 6 and the other between pins 6 - 7 on the motor connectors. The brush module connects them together in series. Presumably the 2K1 relay that has been removed (again as mentioned by Harry K above) was to allow either both or just one of the windings to be energized.
 
I too would also just like to say thank you to all the contributors of this thread.

On Monday this week our 9 year old Miele W865 stopped working and presented the flashing "rinses" light fault. After finding this thread, I ordered the £2 6.3A fuse from Farnells in hope of being able to fix it. The fuse arrived today and after about 10mins of some soldering, the machine was working perfectly once again! :D

Many thanks!
 
Miele W828 washing machine. Only six years old and not had a hard life by any extent. (sounds like a For Sale Ad!). Flashing rinse light and no completion of the cycle increased the tension on the domestic home front though! .

I am certainly in debt to the previous writers and their attempts to resolve the problem, but due to lack of time, reluctantly mortaged the house to pay for a washing machine techincian to come and have a look at it.
Now in receipt of a $AU800.00 quote for a new PCB and shock absorbers. It was at this point that I realised I could find the time to investigate it further.

I read and re-read all the comments that had been posted concerning this machine and this apparently common problem.

I pulled the board out and initial investigation revealed the 6.3A PCB mount fuse was open circuit. I have also read numerous references to the PCB mounted relay that controls motor direction fusing closed ciruit, so I felt that this may have been the cause of the blown fuse.

At the same time, in for a pound, in for a penny, as well ordering the shock absorbers I also ordered a set of motor brushes, as these appeared often in reports of problems. Incidentally, both of these were ordered from an appliance supply outlet in the UK, which I found through e-bay. Quite cheap considering some of the prices that had been mentioned for Miele parts. Got those about ten days later, and all OK.

When these parts arrived, finally got around to pulling the motor out. There could only have been about 1 -2 mm of cabon worn off the existing brushes, so I didn't end up replacing them. Cleaned up the rotor of only a very small amount of residual carbon, and all looked well. Ran meter over windings and all other connections and quite satisfied that there was no problem there.

Also replaced the shock absorbers, and gratifed to see that the tub now had the stability that it had when it left the factory.

That only left the PCB. (Well, in the dark recesses of my mind, I had to admit that it could have been somewhere else, but I didn't want to go down that path).

I removed the PCB mounted fuse and replaced it with a M205 type vertical mount fuse holder. Also bought some spare 6.3A slow blow M205 fuses, as I imagined that if something had blow the fuse in the first place, it was likely to take it out again, so having some spares and easy an easy access fuse holder made sense.

I also checked that reverse direction relay thinking that it, like many other contributors comments, may have failed. Fortunately, I was able to test it with a 9 volt battery without having to take it out of the board, and there was nothing wrong with any of the contacts.

Running out of options here.
Then I remembered that many of the contibutors had mentioned that the flashing rinse light and cyclic stop sequence had occurred following a loud noise and accompanying with a heavy wash load.
Now my shock absobers were well and truely shot, and although I didn't have a big load in at the time, maybe the PCB had been damaged through excessive vibration.

A careful scrunity of the PCB showed no breaks or obvious damage, so the next step was to run the soldering iron over each joint in case one of them had suffered from vibration.

I also checked out those semiconductors that I could reach, and they all measured up OK. (all rather difficult without a comprehensive circuit diagram)

Not being able to ascertain anything else obviously wrong, and having worked through all the suggestions from previous contributors, I reassembed the machine and WACKO, it works perfectly.

I can only put it down to excessive vibration that may have either damaged a solder joint on the PCB or induced a dodgy connection on one of the wiring looms. Although that still doesn't explain why the 6.3 A fuse blew. Sometimes you've just got to accept what happens!!

I am indebited to all the other contributors for their insight into this problem on this machine.
 
You know? This topic shows the value of forums and of the combined efforts of people from across the world. Great stuff!

Like a previous poster, this week our W865 went 'Bang' while washing towels and the Rinses light started flashing. :eek: Tried talking to Miele, very helpful up to the point of outright assistance (£98 call out charge ... parts extra ... etc etc :rolleyes: ) so I took the plunge and moved the unit out for inspection. Lid off, board out and measured the fuse - blown. So next I'll have to check the relay (just in case) and order the fuse.

Found these on Farnell's web site which look identical to the one on the pcb (a TR5 PCB mounted fuse rated at 6.3A/250V) I've attached a photo here of the fuse:


I also was able to test the relay (6K1 from the schematic).
To do this, first find the relay (see photos below)
6K1 is on bottom right of this picture.

Then turn the board over

And apply a PP3 battery to the coil terminals as shown here

If the relay is OK, it will click-click as you touch the terminals. However note that to fully test the relay you should use a meter between the contacts to make sure the contacts switch over cleanly when you connect the battery. I found when doing this that one contact had welded itself shut and the other was free to move. The result was that the relay was actually shorting out the mains when energised and therefore blowing the fuse in the process. Now, having replaced the fuse and the relay, we have a working machine again. Costs for parts were less than £10.

Probably supplied before, but here is a link to the Farnell page for the relay (a TYCO/SCHRACK RT424012 PCB mounted relay - 8A DPCO, 12VDC)

Hope this helps someone else mend their own board.

Savcom
 

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