MK style junction box

[adders21]

Hi All,

We recently had some home improvements which involved some electrical work. The electrician discovered about 8 brown MK style junction box's under our bedroom floor. He checked them all over and our house has all the relevant safety certificates. Tagged on to his work though is a note recommending that we rewire the house because of the junction box's.

Is there an alternative style of junction box that can make the connections ultra safe?

Should I just take the plunge and get our house rewired? It's not just the cost but the problem of having to move out whilst the work is done.

Some times I wish the electrician had just condemned the wiring then that would just be job done!

Thank you for your comments.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Thousands of houses in the UK have loads of junction boxes hidden under their floors.
In fact, up to about 30 years ago it was the standard way to wire lighting circuits: a large junction box under the landing floor, somewhere connecting all of the lighting for the gound floor, and another in the loft for the upper floor.

Since that time the regulations have stated that any termination with screwed connections should be accessible. Regulations are not retrospective, however.

Doing away with the junction boxes would be a nice thing to do but I would expect there to be a larger more deparate need to do a complete REWIRE - like:
old rubber style wiring with crumbling insulation
installation failing continuity or insulation tests
etc

Did the electrician identify anything like this? Did he do any tests and produce a report, or is he making work for himself?

 

[securespark]

Suggest to the electrician that to make the installation compliant, MF junction boxes are used.

If he claims this is not sufficient, ask him why.

 

[adders21]

Hi Guys,
Thank you for the quick reply's.

The only other comment was that the utility light (used to be an outdoor porch that we had converted) is not earthed. So we can only have plastic fittings.

The rest of the wiring past all other tests according to his report and personal comments. I don't think he was trying to make work for himself as he has now moved out of the area and told me at the time that he could not do the work.
The builders told me not to worry as the electrician couldn't pass the work if didn't pass all the relevant test, but it still niggles me that he said I should have a re-wire.


So if a problem occurred with one of the junction box's the main trip should trip?

So should I get another electrician in to replace the box's with MF box's?

ps, do either of you know if a metal bath should be earthed?

 

[securespark]

(1) So if a problem occurred with one of the junction box's the main trip should trip?

(2) So should I get another electrician in to replace the box's with MF box's?

(1) Not necessarily.

(2) Only if having screwed conductor joints under the floor bothers you.

As TTC states, the regs are not retrospective. The JB's may even still comply, if they are accessible.

 

[RF Lighting]

You've two choices here.

1) Leave thaings exactly as they are.

2) Rewire the circuit(s) so that there are no joints.

Anything else such as messing about with MF connections is just a waste of time and money.

 

[SimonH2]

So if a problem occurred with one of the junction box's the main trip should trip?

Probably not.
The main risk is connections coming loose due to vibration, changes in temperature, etc. If the terminal that comes loose is the earth, then that potentially compromises the earthing. If it's the live or neutral, then the risk is that the load current through a bad connection causes heat - or for a ring circuit, puts excess current through the other leg of the ring which could potentially overload the cable (but only if you put loads on that total above about 27A).
We have lots of other connections (eg on the back of each socket), so a few more don't really up the (quite low) risk all that much.

But as said, it used to be standard practice, and I don't think we here of lots of incidents due to it - in the grand scheme of things, it's not a big risk and I wouldn't be at all worried about it. Since the electrician found them during a PIR - they presumably are accessible for maintenance, and that makes them compliant with the current regs.

 

[adders21]

Hi Simon,

Thank you for the very good explanation. You have put my mind at rest.

One thing though, the electrician did change the circuit from a ring circuit to a radial circuit. I asked him why and he replied that the circuit had been extended and was better suited to a radial circuit.

How often should I get the junction boxs checked?

 

[rjm2k]

The ESC recommends a PIR every 10 years

http://www.esc.org.uk/public/guides-and-advice/faqs/

Did the electrician put a next recommended inspection date on any forms?

 

[Taylortwocities]

PIR now replaced by EICR (Electrical installation Condition Report)

You'll note the word "periodic" is missing!
The interval between tests will be determined at the time of test and will be noted on the report that you should have. It will be up to the tester to judge the interval between tests.

When doing an EICR it is not usual to lift carpets/flooring etc. Normally it wil be electrical tests on the circuit(s) and a visial inspection of a percentage of the visible installation (eg take off a few sockets, switches to determine any obvious signs of deterioration of the wiring etc.

Going back to your OP. You would not have been aware of any junction boxes under the floor if the building works had not taken place.
Any electrician doing tests on your installation will not have been aware of the JBs, he will have looked at the test results and signed it off as satisfactory.

That's where it should be now.

 

[dhutch]

Im not an electrican but I think its a case of there being a huge diffrence between being perfectly safe but none prefered and needing replacing.

Obviously if the wiring it a mess and your doing a lot of other work, rewiring would be a consideration, but if its safe, does what you want and you dont have all the plaster off, i would not loose sleep.

Daniel

 

[JohnW2]

Did the electrician identify anything like this? Did he do any tests and produce a report, or is he making work for himself?

The answers are all there for you to read ...

Tagged on to his work though is a note recommending that we rewire the house because of the junction box's. ... The only other comment was that the utility light (used to be an outdoor porch that we had converted) is not earthed. ... The rest of the wiring past all other tests according to his report and personal comments. I don't think he was trying to make work for himself as he has now moved out of the area and told me at the time that he could not do the work.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Taylortwocities]

Did the electrician identify anything like this? Did he do any tests and produce a report, or is he making work for himself?

I think you'll find that I said EXACTLY that some days ago.

did you not read the thread?

 

[dhutch]

Did the electrician identify anything like this? Did he do any tests and produce a report, or is he making work for himself?

Did the electrician identify anything like this? Did he do any tests and produce a report, or is he making work for himself?

Echo, echo, echo....

I think you'll find that I said EXACTLY that some days ago?

Daniel

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I think you'll find that unionsac is the latest incarnation of that spammer who I hope will die in a painful and degrading way later today.