edit, post removed to keep thread tidy
need help with planning
- Thread starter suity
- Start date
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Here we go, hopefully this works!
When we first moved to the property:
After clearing most of the trees and rubbish:
When the sheds arrived:
With three of the pens started (this is when we were told to stop work):
In total there are ten small wooden sheds and three wooden aviary style enclosures. I completely understand that this is more sheds than the 'norm' for a domestic garden, and that is why I wonder if they have a case. In saying that though, I really have strictly stuck to their rules, and the footprint of all of the work is only 9% of the entire property. We are also surrounded by mature trees and hedgerow which completely hides everything from most of the neighbours.
When we first moved to the property:
After clearing most of the trees and rubbish:
When the sheds arrived:
With three of the pens started (this is when we were told to stop work):
In total there are ten small wooden sheds and three wooden aviary style enclosures. I completely understand that this is more sheds than the 'norm' for a domestic garden, and that is why I wonder if they have a case. In saying that though, I really have strictly stuck to their rules, and the footprint of all of the work is only 9% of the entire property. We are also surrounded by mature trees and hedgerow which completely hides everything from most of the neighbours.
edit, post removed to keep thread tidy
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Are you keeping birds of prey?
Am no expert and in no way trying to be critical but that does look like a lot of sheds! And yet only 9% coverage?
Would be interested to see a plan view with dimensions and calcs. Perhaps that would help your argument with the planners.
Am guessing that someone must have complained to the council to kick this off in the first place, even if no-one is owning up to it.
Would be interested to see a plan view with dimensions and calcs. Perhaps that would help your argument with the planners.
Am guessing that someone must have complained to the council to kick this off in the first place, even if no-one is owning up to it.
You can post all the photo’s you like but you will not get any definitive answers on here, they are just photos.
As mentioned already you need to tell them you believe you are within the law and demand why they believe you are in breach and if you do not get a proper response then make a complaint. In my experience generally, making a complaint to the council will yield a proper response.
As mentioned already you need to tell them you believe you are within the law and demand why they believe you are in breach and if you do not get a proper response then make a complaint. In my experience generally, making a complaint to the council will yield a proper response.
Kbdiy - yep, I definitely agree its a lot of sheds! That's why I was so nervous and careful when starting this project, but I did call the planning department to ask exactly what I was allowed to do and they said if I followed the 9 rules that I posted here on page 1 that I would be within permitted development. I even have email proof from them telling me it would be fine.
I got my architect to draw me out a proper plan view with accurate dimensions but it didn't make a difference to the planners. I will try to get a copy of it up on here.
Even though it is a lot of sheds, their total area (along with the enclosures) is 121.45 square metres, and the entire property is 1,230 square metres. This equals only 9.87%.
Kingandy - no I don't currently keep birds of prey, perhaps in the future.
Freddy - I have asked them to give me that information several times now, if you ask them on the phone they dance around the subject, and if you ask them by letter they outright ignore the question as if it doesn't matter.
I think you're right, submitting a formal complaint is the only way forward.
I got my architect to draw me out a proper plan view with accurate dimensions but it didn't make a difference to the planners. I will try to get a copy of it up on here.
Even though it is a lot of sheds, their total area (along with the enclosures) is 121.45 square metres, and the entire property is 1,230 square metres. This equals only 9.87%.
Kingandy - no I don't currently keep birds of prey, perhaps in the future.
Freddy - I have asked them to give me that information several times now, if you ask them on the phone they dance around the subject, and if you ask them by letter they outright ignore the question as if it doesn't matter.
I think you're right, submitting a formal complaint is the only way forward.
Ok - so what is going in all the sheds?
If you're not keeping large birds of prey, then I assume you're keeping lots of small animals/birds.
I don’t know where you’re keeping your animals currently or if you’re looking to stock the sheds once completed.
I think the factor that the council might be angling for is the fact that you’re keeping livestock/small holding for breeding rather than pets I.e. these are for a business than for domestic.
If that’s the case, I think they might have a point. While there is no arbitrary number attached, there certainly is a point where the sheer number of animals involved means they no longer become pets and are simply treated as livestock and thus not domestic.
If you're not keeping large birds of prey, then I assume you're keeping lots of small animals/birds.
I don’t know where you’re keeping your animals currently or if you’re looking to stock the sheds once completed.
I think the factor that the council might be angling for is the fact that you’re keeping livestock/small holding for breeding rather than pets I.e. these are for a business than for domestic.
If that’s the case, I think they might have a point. While there is no arbitrary number attached, there certainly is a point where the sheer number of animals involved means they no longer become pets and are simply treated as livestock and thus not domestic.
Hi kingandy - no, we don't keep any animals at all for the purpose of breeding. Our passion is exotic animals, we keep many small species such as meerkats, possums, prairie dogs and sugar gliders etc. All of the animals we own are neutered, we don't breed them or run any kind of business with them. It is solely our passion. This has always just been our lives, sharing it with unusual animals. Also, as they are exotic animals we get regular inspections from the department of agriculture, and they are always extremely happy with the welfare and lives of the animals, as well as our purpose for having them (ie, not for a business but because it is our passion).
I thought perhaps the problem was because it was exotic animals, but I quoted them this bit of info:
'Incidental to the enjoyment of the dwelling house includes the keeping of poultry, bees, pet animals, birds or livestock for the domestic needs or personal enjoyment of the occupants of the house'
- http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/outbuildings/miniguide
I believe this clearly shows that it doesn't matter what the nature of the animals being kept in the shed, they are our pets and have been part of our life for years. Having them here is incidental to our enjoyment of the dwelling house.
I thought perhaps the problem was because it was exotic animals, but I quoted them this bit of info:
'Incidental to the enjoyment of the dwelling house includes the keeping of poultry, bees, pet animals, birds or livestock for the domestic needs or personal enjoyment of the occupants of the house'
- http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/outbuildings/miniguide
I believe this clearly shows that it doesn't matter what the nature of the animals being kept in the shed, they are our pets and have been part of our life for years. Having them here is incidental to our enjoyment of the dwelling house.
just say to the officers,
surely its not expediente to take this any furthor,dont waiste your money in fighting it just wait for an enforcement letter and go to appeal with it,its another case of an officer not knowing the rules,you proberly got a parish councilor living in the close percinity,
atb with it mark
surely its not expediente to take this any furthor,dont waiste your money in fighting it just wait for an enforcement letter and go to appeal with it,its another case of an officer not knowing the rules,you proberly got a parish councilor living in the close percinity,
atb with it mark
Hi there Mark, thanks very much for the reply.
So I am okay to wait for the enforcement letter, and then make an appeal?
I'm just nervous about that because the planners have been really unhelpful in explaining the whole procedure. When I called them to ask how I can appeal, they have told me 'look you have three options: take them down before the enforcement letter, take them down after the enforcement letter, or we take you to court'.
So I am okay to wait for the enforcement letter, and then make an appeal?
I'm just nervous about that because the planners have been really unhelpful in explaining the whole procedure. When I called them to ask how I can appeal, they have told me 'look you have three options: take them down before the enforcement letter, take them down after the enforcement letter, or we take you to court'.
hi
keep all your emails show them to the inspectorate about the local authority not helping or being forthcoming with advice,i really cant see them taking it to the enforcement stage,if they do there silly but then we are talking planners and enforcement officers neither have much common sence,but proberly the enforcrement officer is an ex receptionist or council worker as most dont have much planning back ground,dont give into them on such a small issue
keep all your emails show them to the inspectorate about the local authority not helping or being forthcoming with advice,i really cant see them taking it to the enforcement stage,if they do there silly but then we are talking planners and enforcement officers neither have much common sence,but proberly the enforcrement officer is an ex receptionist or council worker as most dont have much planning back ground,dont give into them on such a small issue
Hey guys, things are starting to escalate now and I am at my wits end 
After numerous calls to the planning department to try to find out exactly what my breach is, they've still been extremely unwilling to give out too much information.
I asked them if they could tell me the exact breach that I have caused, or tell me exactly which of the 9 permitted development laws that I have broken. But they will NOT tell me which one I have apparently breached!!!
The most I can get out of them is that my sheds are 'out of scale with what is normal'. Now, I don't dispute it is more sheds than what is normal for a back garden, but the law clearly states you can take up 50% of a property with outbuildings as long as they fulfil the other requirements!!!
When I brought this up they said that is true but the number of animals I have makes it out of scale. They seem to be implying that the use of the sheds is not domestic. Is having sheds for a hobby (pet keeping) not a domestic purpose which is incidental to the enjoyment of our dwelling house?! I do not run a business with these animals, nor do I breed from them, they are simply an important part of our family and lives!
My family and I are so stressed, I am having panic attacks, this is messing with our lives so so much. We are apparently going to be getting our enforcement letter soon.
I have made a formal complaint to the planning department and I hope something will come of that, but will it really change anything?! If you were in this situation, what would you do??
Thank you for reading, your help has brought us a lot of comfort and support over the past few weeks.
After numerous calls to the planning department to try to find out exactly what my breach is, they've still been extremely unwilling to give out too much information.
I asked them if they could tell me the exact breach that I have caused, or tell me exactly which of the 9 permitted development laws that I have broken. But they will NOT tell me which one I have apparently breached!!!
The most I can get out of them is that my sheds are 'out of scale with what is normal'. Now, I don't dispute it is more sheds than what is normal for a back garden, but the law clearly states you can take up 50% of a property with outbuildings as long as they fulfil the other requirements!!!
When I brought this up they said that is true but the number of animals I have makes it out of scale. They seem to be implying that the use of the sheds is not domestic. Is having sheds for a hobby (pet keeping) not a domestic purpose which is incidental to the enjoyment of our dwelling house?! I do not run a business with these animals, nor do I breed from them, they are simply an important part of our family and lives!
My family and I are so stressed, I am having panic attacks, this is messing with our lives so so much. We are apparently going to be getting our enforcement letter soon.
I have made a formal complaint to the planning department and I hope something will come of that, but will it really change anything?! If you were in this situation, what would you do??
Thank you for reading, your help has brought us a lot of comfort and support over the past few weeks.
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