need help with planning

[^woody^]

I have made a formal complaint to the planning department

Make sure the complaint is being processed under the council's complaints system - reference numbers and timescales should be given, and then escalate it until you get the answers.

And the complaint needs to be related to how the planners are dealing with you, and not related to any planning issues or permitted development etc - otherwise it wont be dealt with

 

[suity]

Thanks Woody, yes our complaint is solely about how they have dealt with the case in giving us information.

We think we are going to apply for planning permission. We wanted to avoid this because we stand by the fact that what we are doing is permitted development and we hoped that we could convince them of that. Do you think, because the planners are making such a big fuss about it at this stage, are they just going to deny the application anyway?!

 

[geraldthehamster]

Thanks Woody, yes our complaint is solely about how they have dealt with the case in giving us information.

We think we are going to apply for planning permission. We wanted to avoid this because we stand by the fact that what we are doing is permitted development and we hoped that we could convince them of that. Do you think, because the planners are making such a big fuss about it at this stage, are they just going to deny the application anyway?!

Wouldn't an enforcement notice, if issued, have to detail what exactly was felt to be in contravention? If they are fobbing you off now on the details, and you are sure it's all PD, then maybe they don't have anything to put in an enforcement notice.

Cheers
Richatd

 

[rjm2k]

I wouldn't apply for permission if you think it's PD as it would just cause you hassle anyway and give them the opportunity to reject it, where do you go from that?

I'm no expert, but I would wait for them to put the detail in an enforcement notice and then appeal it based on the facts. I suspect they probably won't bother with the notice though as they will look pretty stupid if they have dealt with you badly and they are wrong.

 

[suity]

From what little information they have given me, on the enforcement notice it will say something like 'the sheds and enclosures are out of scale'. But they are not basing this on the size or the number of the sheds, they seem to be basing this on the fact that I am keeping animals in them. There will be roughly 12 animals in the garden, and although they are classed as 'exotic', they are in fact my own domestic pets, which I have every right to keep. 12 may seem like a lot to some people, but most of them are very small - the size of a rabbit. This is a very specialist hobby/way of life and I know people who have literally hundreds of animals.

The enforcement letter will probably say something like that. I do not know if that is a strong enough case for them to use, and I just pray that an appeal can over turn it.

I wish they would truly consider the suffering they are causing. If they go through with this and they win, we will have to move, our whole lives will be turned upside down and we will have lost many, many thousands of pounds. They should compare that suffering to the supposed potential suffering of neighbours if my structures stay, which is none. The animals do not make noise nor do they smell, and the neighbours absolutely love having them here, they are over every single day giving them treats and interacting with them.

 

[geraldthehamster]

From what little information they have given me, on the enforcement notice it will say something like 'the sheds and enclosures are out of scale'.

Well, it says here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/7707/321199.pdf

2.9 An enforcement notice must enable every person who receives a copy to know-
• exactly what, in the LPA's view, constitutes the breach of control; and
• what steps the LPA require to be taken, or what activities are required to cease, to remedy the breach.

So I think they'd need to be more specific.

Cheers
Richard

 

[luisdesign]

2.9 An enforcement notice must enable every person who receives a copy to know-
• exactly what, in the LPA's view, constitutes the breach of control; and
• what steps the LPA require to be taken, or what activities are required to cease, to remedy the breach.

So I think they'd need to be more specific.

This.

An enforcement letter must tell you what the breach is.

It sounds to me like you may have some influential neighbours - maybe a councillor or someone close to one - and they are trying to pull their weight to pull their weight. This is why the planning department are not being specific - because they have nothing on you but are likely being "told" by someone that they need to step in.

The enforcement action letter will give you the ideas for how to proceed next. The likely outcome is that you will need to submit an application for a certificate of lawful development in order to prove that what you have is permitted development.

The planning officers may try to refuse this, and you will then be able to appeal their decision - so that an impartial inspector will assess it against the law objectively. You've already been told to keep a record of all your e-mails, but also make sure that you keep a track of any expenditures on outside consultants - such as those architects you spoke with. You will then be able to claim any appeal costs back because you will clearly be able to demonstrate that the council are not acting properly.

 

[rjm2k]

Don't forget all this is in NI so rules maybe slightly different. I think that they will try to argue that it's commercial and therefore change of use, they will have to prove so and you will have to prove it's not so. Exactly how you do that I have no idea.

There was an episode of "The Planners" where a guy built a huge lean to/garage to maintain his collection of vehicles in, the council reckoned that he was running a business, it went to committee and luckily for him they believed he had such a huge personal collection of vehicles for his own amusement.

Either that, or they'll go away quietly with their tail between their legs, just depends on how puffed up they want to make their chest.

 

[suity]

Hey folks. First of all, thank you for the comments that I have not yet replied to.

Unfortunately this situation is not yet resolved, and is getting more and more difficult to deal with. I did not hear from the planners for almost two months, and part of me thought that the situation had died down a little, but then I got another letter.

I have now had 9 architects out to view my property and they all agree with me that I am completely within my permitted development rights and that the planners are not only wrong, but being totally unreasonable and unprofessional. No one can understand what is going on.

I have just started the process of seeking legal advice, and today a solicitor reviewed the situation for me. Again, he agrees with myself and the architects. There is no breach.

And yet the planners are still pursuing this case?! I honestly want this stopped before it gets to the enforcement stage. Their most recent letter implied that enforcement would be coming next (on the 4th of October). I want their harassment and maladministration to stop before it causes any more distress to my family.

Can I ask the people who are wiser than myself, what would you do in this situation? Who on earth should I talk to?!

Thank you so much.

 

[geraldthehamster]

I have now had 9 architects out to view my property and they all agree with me that I am completely within my permitted development rights and that the planners are not only wrong, but being totally unreasonable and unprofessional. No one can understand what is going on.

I have just started the process of seeking legal advice, and today a solicitor reviewed the situation for me. Again, he agrees with myself and the architects. There is no breach.

And yet the planners are still pursuing this case?! I honestly want this stopped before it gets to the enforcement stage. Their most recent letter implied that enforcement would be coming next (on the 4th of October). I want their harassment and maladministration to stop before it causes any more distress to my family.

Can I ask the people who are wiser than myself, what would you do in this situation? Who on earth should I talk to?!

Thank you so much.

Get your solicitor to write a letter to the planners, saying what you've said above, indicating your resolve to appeal against any enforcement and reminding them of the costs they will incur?

Or at least ask your solicitor if this is an appropriate course of action.

Cheers
Richard

 

[suity]

Thanks Richard, yes my solicitor said in this instance he would be willing to do that, I said I needed a couple more days to make sure that was the right decision.

How would the planners react to a solicitors letter? Are they just going to pretend like it doesn't matter like any other correspondence I've had with them?

 

[geraldthehamster]

Thanks Richard, yes my solicitor said in this instance he would be willing to do that, I said I needed a couple more days to make sure that was the right decision.

How would the planners react to a solicitors letter? Are they just going to pretend like it doesn't matter like any other correspondence I've had with them?

I have no idea, because I have no experience in this matter. But at the end of the day it makes no sense for them to chuck public money at a case if they know they will lose it. Councils are so strapped for cash at the moment that most of them can't afford to buy biscuits.

Cheers
Richard

 

[jeds]

I don't see any option here. The planners are obviously dead set against so there's no chance they will approve a retrospective planning application. So your only option is to let it take it's course which will most likely end up with an enforcement notice. Once received you will at least know exactly what you are dealing with. My advice then would be to appeal the notice. Whatever you do don't apply for retrospective planning - that will only put you in a worse position. If the sheds are 100% certain permitted development I would also make a claim for costs. The costs claim must go in at the appeal stage so start working it out early on.

 

[geraldthehamster]

I don't see any option here. The planners are obviously dead set against so there's no chance they will approve a retrospective planning application. So your only option is to let it take it's course which will most likely end up with an enforcement notice. Once received you will at least know exactly what you are dealing with. My advice then would be to appeal the notice. Whatever you do don't apply for retrospective planning - that will only put you in a worse position. If the sheds are 100% certain permitted development I would also make a claim for costs. The costs claim must go in at the appeal stage so start working it out early on.

Do you think it worth getting the solicitor to write before the enforcement notice, to say that professional advice from 9 architects is that this is PD, and that any enforcement notice will be appealed against and costs claimed for? That might, surely, concentrate their minds into not issuing the notice in the first place.

I agree about not putting in a planning application.

Cheers
Richard
(watching to see how this pans out)

 

[jeds]

No harm in that. In fact I think I suggested in an earlier post to do just that.