New cooker hood - schuko plug??

[ericmark]

SCHEDULE 3 EXCLUDED APPLIANCES
7. Any appliance which is intended to be permanently connected to the fixed wiring of the mains system other than by means of a plug and socket.

This means had the supplier simply cut the plug off it would have complied as it could be said it is intended to be permanently connected to fixed wiring in the same way as a central heating boiler, or immersion heater.

553.1.2 Except for SELV or a special circuit from Regulation 553.1.5, every plug and socket-outlet shall be of the non-reversible type. with provision for the connection of a protective conductor.

I am sure current one is the same, we have not been allowed to have Schuko sockets in this country for some time.

Personally I would simply cut off the Schuko and replace with 13 amp type. Main reason for the adaptors is so a retailer can fit one without using the services of an electrician. With a Schuko plug all on/off switches need to be double pole, as the neutral and line can be swapped around, and you could be switching the neutral, so although switched off there are live parts.

 

[EFLImpudence]

With a Schuko plug all on/off switches need to be double pole,

That is not true.

as the neutral and line can be swapped around,

No, they can't.

and you could be switching the neutral,

In such an case what you are calling the neutral would then be the line, so it is not so.

so although switched off there are live parts.

Not accessible parts.

 

[JohnW2]

This means had the supplier simply cut the plug off it would have complied as it could be said it is intended to be permanently connected to fixed wiring in the same way as a central heating boiler, or immersion heater.

That might be true in the OP's case, since it would not be unreasonable for a cooker hood to be 'hard-wired'. However, I doubt that they could get away with that (to avoid selling something in the UK with a non-BS1363 plug) if it were something obviously intended to be supplied by a plug (or whatever sort) - like so many consumer items.

Indeed, even with a cooker hood, if the documentation indicated (as it probably would in this case) that the intention was that it should be supplied by a plug, then I again doubt that they could simply cut it off (for sale in the UK)

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

That might be true in the OP's case, since it would not be unreasonable for a cooker hood to be 'hard-wired'. However, I doubt that they could get away with that (to avoid selling something in the UK with a non-BS1363 plug) if it were something obviously intended to be supplied by a plug (or whatever sort) - like so many consumer items.

Indeed, even with a cooker hood, if the documentation indicated (as it probably would in this case) that the intention was that it should be supplied by a plug, then I again doubt that they could simply cut it off (for sale in the UK)

Kind Regards, John

Where does it say it has to be a BS1363 plug?

 

[JohnW2]

Where does it say it has to be a BS1363 plug?

12.—(1) Subject to the following provisions of this regulation, no person shall supply, offer for supply, agree to supply, expose for supply or possess for supply any appliance unless that appliance is correctly fitted with a standard plug which–
(a)complies with the requirements of regulation 8 above; and
(b)is fitted with a fuse link which conforms to BS 1362 and is rated in accordance with the appliance manufacturer’s instructions, provided that in the absence of such instructions the fuse link may be rated in accordance with Table 2 of BS 1363.

I know of no sort of plug other than a BS1363 one which can be fitted with a BS1362 fuse, do you?

Kind Regards, John

 

[TimboTwo]

I think an adapter will be good but I’m not sure which is a reputable place. I looked on TLC but they didn’t seem to carry it online

Try CPC Farnell.

 

[SUNRAY]

I know of no sort of plug other than a BS1363 one which can be fitted with a BS1362 fuse, do you?

Kind Regards, John

So we're not allowed to use original BS546 anymore?

And according to EU laws it is acceptable for electrical installations to conform to regulations in other member states, ie it is acceplable to use Schuko connectors in UK just as it's acceptable to install BS1363 connectors in any other member state except France.

 

[JohnW2]

So we're not allowed to use original BS546 anymore?

We're not talking about 'using'. Since 1994 it has not been legal to 'supply' a product in the UK which has a plug which is not a BS1363 one.

And according to EU laws it is acceptable for electrical installations to conform to regulations in other member states, ...

Well, quite apart from the fact that the UK no longer is an EU member State, we are not talking about 'electrical installations' - and, even when we were in the EU, I don't think any EU laws/regulations ever trumped local UK legislation as regards what plugs had to be fitted to appliances 'supplied in' the UK.

I believe the 1994 notes you cite have been amended.

It appears that you believe incorrectly. If you look (today) at the start of the legislation to which I linked, it says:

Status: This is the original version (as it was originally made). This item of legislation is currently only available in its original format.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

We're not talking about 'using'. Since 1994 it has not been legal to 'supply' a product in the UK which has a plug which is not a BS1363 one.
Well, quite apart from the fact that the UK no longer is an EU member State, we are not talking about 'electrical installations' - and, even when we were in the EU, I don't think any EU laws/regulations ever trumped local UK legislation as regards what plugs had to be fitted to appliances 'supplied in' the UK.
It appears that you believe incorrectly. If you look (today) at the start of the legislation to which I linked, it says:


Kind Regards, John

Well I've certainly purchased kit this century fitted with BS546 15A and BS4343 and in both situations the BS1363 plugs would have been inappropriate so I don't know how that happens. Do they make 5 pole BS1363 plugs?
As member states we were obliged by law to accept other countries wiring regs, including types of sockets, that particular law is still on our statute book. Do I take it we are no longer permitted to sell ES lamps and bulbs?

Where does this stop?

I was under the impression that 1994 reg had been amended before I took my 16th about 10 years ago. I remember it being discussed during the course.

Oh and does this include electric car charging?

 

[JohnW2]

Well I've certainly purchsed kit this century fitted with BS546 15A and BS4343 and in both situations the BS1363 plugs would have been inappropriate so I don't know how that happens. Do they make 5 pole BS1363 plugs?

What "kit" are you referring to? Do you realise that what we are talking about, and the entirety of the UK legislation I've been citing, relates only to ".... any appliance which ........ (d) is ordinarily intended for domestic use." ??

As member states we were obliged by law to accept other countries wiring regs, including types of sockets, that particular law is still on our statute book.

I don't know about other countries but there are, of course, no legislated or mandatory "wiring regs" in the UK. I am no lawyer, but I think there must be something wrong with what you suggest, since if it were correct, it would have to apply reciprocally between any Member States.

However, we have recently been repeatedly 'reminded' that Type AC RCDs 'have been illegal/banned' in Germany 'for many years'. Had Germany been "obliged by law to accept other countries wiring regs", they would not have been able to 'ban' devices which are not only allowed by the UK's 'wiring regs' (BS7671) but are actually stated in those regs to be "suitable for general use".

I was under the impression that 1994 reg had been amended before I took my 16th about 10 years ago. I remember it being discussed during the course.

Again, I think you are under an incorrect impression. It seems that the 1994 legislation superseded the 1987 legislation of the same name, but that there have been no Amendments since 1994.

[ maybe just a typo, but there's presumably something a bit wrong with "... before I took my 16th about 10 years ago" ]

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

What "kit" are you referring to? Do you realise that what we are talking about, and the entirety of the UK legislation I've been citing, relates only to ".... any appliance which ........ (d) is ordinarily intended for domestic use." ??

Fair do's, only time I've had any sight of it was during the 16th course and discussion occurred about the situations where it doesn't work.

I don't know about other countries but there are, of course, no legislated or mandatory "wiring regs" in the UK. I am no lawyer, but I think there must be something wrong with what you suggest, since if it were correct, it would have to apply reciprocally between any Member States.

It does except France

However, we have recently been repeatedly 'reminded' that Type AC RCDs 'have been illegal/banned' in Germany 'for many years'. Had Germany been "obliged by law to accept other countries wiring regs", they would not have been able to 'ban' devices which are not only allowed by the UK's 'wiring regs' (BS7671) but are actually stated in those regs to be "suitable for general use".

If I understand it correctly Germany were one of the prime movers for this particular piece of legilation, on that basis I'd say there are grounds for appeal.

Again, I think you are under an incorrect impression. It seems that the 1994 legislation superseded the 1987 legislation of the same name, but that there have been no Amendments since 1994.

Kind Regards, John

Fair enough I've just had a very quick look and indeed it does state that however speed reading some of it is seems you are not aware of this

Electrical devices other than standard plugs

10.—(1) Subject to the following provisions of this regulation, any electrical device (other than a standard plug) specified in column 2 of Schedule 2 to these Regulations shall conform to the particular British Standard specified for such devices in column 3 of that Schedule.

I haven't looked at the schedule.

 

[JohnW2]

If I understand it correctly Germany were one of the prime movers for this particular piece of legilation, on that basis I'd say there are grounds for appeal.

I'm not sure what you are suggesting/saying. You said that any Member State was "obliged by law to accept other countries wiring regs" - which, if true, would mean that (at least before we left the EU!), Germany would have been obliged to 'accept' Type AC RCDs, and hence could not have banned them, could they?

Fair enough I've just had a very quick look and indeed it does state that however speed reading some of it is seems you are not aware of this

I'm aware of it, but you're looking at the wrong Part of the legislation. Clause 10, which you quote, is in Part I, which relates to the supply of plugs and sockets (non-BS1363 ones of which may, in some situations, be supplied in the UK). What we are talking about is Part II (starting with Clause 11), relating to the supply of appliances (with fitted plugs).

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

I'm not sure what you are suggesting/saying. You said that any Member State was "obliged by law to accept other countries wiring regs" - which, if true, would mean that (at least before we left the EU!), Germany would have been obliged to 'accept' Type AC RCDs, and hence could not have banned them, could they?
I'm aware of it, but you're looking at the wrong Part of the legislation. Clause 10, which you quote, is in Part I, which relates to the supply of plugs and sockets (non-BS1363 ones of which may, in some situations, be supplied in the UK). What we are talking about is Part II (starting with Clause 11), relating to the supply of appliances (with fitted plugs).

Kind Regards, John

I did speed read. Too late now, I'll have another look tomorrow

 

[ericmark]

In answer to @SUNRAY and @JohnW2
1) We are not a member of the EU.
2) Reversible plugs have not been allowed in UK for a long time.
3) There are exceptions in the 1994 regulations for lighting and fixed appliances so there are places still allowed to supply with old three pin plugs.
4) It is the supply of goods without BS 1363 there is nothing to stop the user swapping to another plug after.
5)

I know of no sort of plug other than a BS1363 one which can be fitted with a BS1362 fuse, do you?

yes some types of clock connectors although most have a smaller fuse.
I have used the adaptors, the type with a screw are legal for supplier to fit, but Plug in type they can't fit, however the user can use these

simple plug in, Link here Technically the supplier can't just include the adaptors, although I have had many items which have been supplied with adaptors.

 

[JohnW2]

1) We are not a member of the EU.

Whilst that is now obviously true, in relation to the matters we are discussing I don't think things were much, if at all, different when we were Members. In particular, I don't think that there was ever anything about the EU which could 'over-ride' active UK legislation.

2) Reversible plugs have not been allowed in UK for a long time.

I'm not sure what you mean by "not allowed". I am not aware of anything in the UK which could "not allow" the use of reversible plugs and, judging what is on offer from suppliers, it doesn't look as if anything "does not allow" the supply of reversible plugs in the UK.

3) There are exceptions in the 1994 regulations for lighting and fixed appliances so there are places still allowed to supply with old three pin plugs.

True, but I doubt that (m)any people supplying lighting etc. appliances with round-pin plugs, since there are now so few sockets in the UK into which they could be plugged.

4) It is the supply of goods without BS 1363 there is nothing to stop the user swapping to another plug after.

Of course, and they could even swap it for something that you might try to say was "not allowed" - there is, to the best of my knowledge, no legal control in the UK over what a user 'can do'. However, as you say, the issue is about the supply of appliances with attached plugs, and that is what this entire discussion has been about.

5) yes some types of clock connectors although most have a smaller fuse.

OK, I'd overlooked that one exception, but that is trivial/rare (and certainly not a type of 'plug' that would come fitted to any appliance), and I can't think of any sort of plug other than a standard 13A BS1363 one which contains a BS1362 fuse, can you?

Kind Regards, John