New oil boiler and Evohome

[EddyP]

Morning all,


We live in a three floor property, the current system is setup with a zone valve for each floor, this is then controlled through a three way timer and TRVs, there is no master thermostat, it relies on the boiler stat for starting/stopping the boiler. The boiler is a Worcester Oil Combi.

We'd like to upgrade the system and I've had a quote for as follows:

Remove old boiler, install a Danesmoor 18/25 Utility boiler, install a 200L unvented cylinder with immersion heater backup.
Install a Worcester Wave control system, one wave system per zone.

All of this for £4880

Does that sound reasonable?

My main concern is with the control system, the three separate wave systems doesn't sound like the best solution so I'm thinking perhaps we'd be better off with an Evohome system, but we'd only need it to control the three zone valves rather than putting on separate rad valves, and then put a thermostart into each zone?
Do the Oil system boilers modulate? If so can Evohome talk to a Worcester and tell it to modulate?


Any help would be really useful, it seems that most installers I've spoken to don't really know about the Evohome system.

Thanks

 

[Dan Robinson]

Evohome is an excellent system. But you need to know what you're doing with it. 3 zone valves and hot water is easy peasy.

Look on their website for a local specialist. There are two levels. The installers are usually fine though.

Oil boilers don't modulate and the Evo unit will need its parameters configured to suit the installation.

Wave is pants BTW. Pretty though.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I'm not going to comment on price - it is impossible as we are not there.

 

[EddyP]

Thanks for the reply Dan, sounds like the Evohome will be better, I can probably just install it myself, I'm pretty competent with electrics.
How well does the wireless work? We're in a very old house with thick walls, our wifi works fine going up through the floors, it struggles a bit getting along the length of the house. Perhaps it might be best to hardwire the stat that will be furthest away from things.

I understand it's hard to comment on price, I've just priced up all the hardwire and it's about 3K so his labour is in the region of 1.8K, no idea what to pay for something like this as previously I've fitted boilers myself, just don't have time this time.
The cylinder will be fairly close to the boiler, almost directly above it, and it used to have a cylinder there so I'd guess there's already holes in the joists/walls etc. for the pipework. New boiler will be installed where the existing combi is.

 

[simond]

WAVE is not compatible with Danesmoor, find another installer.

You could fit Evo yourself but you won't find it straightforward. We've all learnt from our experience and training.

 

[Biggles..]

Can wave actually do more than 1 zone on its own or does it need additional modules.
It's hard wired to the boiler so not sure how that Comtrols more than one heating zone ( hot water would require the divertor kit)

 

[EddyP]

I don't think it can as he was proposing to install three complete wave systems, one for each zone!

 

[simond]

You can't fit it to the Danesmoor full stop, and it won't work on multiple zones either.

That's two NO's, so I'm out.

 

[Dan Robinson]

 

[muggles]

I'd rather have a Hounsfield Tuscan boiler - physically smaller, better built, cheaper, comes pre-set to your individual heat load requirement (a Danesmoor 18/25 will always come set at 25kW and you'll have to pay extra for any other heat output, whereas a Tuscan will come at whatever kW output you request when ordering). Generally a better boiler. It's what I chose when I put a new boiler in my place

Modulating oil boilers are available on the continent but are about £5k to buy and the UK market won't pay that much

Evohome is apparently very good...I have to say that my experience with it so far has been less than impressive but that might be down to either bad luck or installer error

 

[simond]

Just a point of accuracy, a Worcester Danesmoor 18/25 does not come set at 25Kw.

 

[simond]

And modulating oil boilers can be bought but the problem is for domestic use the addition of modulation brings such a small efficiency benefit that it would never recover the front end cost to the consumer. Because of this, the introduction of modulating oilers has been delayed in the UK (there was a proposed change to regs to make them mandatory).

 

[EddyP]

Thanks Simon, really useful info.

It's interesting that all of the installers I've spoken to so far say they only fit Worcester, are the Worcesters OK?

 

[simond]

Well, as this forum testifies, every installer has their favourites, and we can get quite animated on here.

My reasons are, some years ago, we'd put around 5 Grant oilers in over the course of around 6 weeks, and within a month every single one had died. We weren't a large volume Worcester installer, preferring Vaillants on the gas side, and doing no oil Worcesters at all.

Grant sent their repair people to every boiler, because the oil pumps were seizing up. They have no service force, so used subbies on £40 an hour. These people were usually a competitor to us, and not surprisingly, they made it their business to rubbish my company wherever they went. My customers were ringing up saying we were ****e and so and so said the problem was we'd installed it wrong.

An number of new oil pumps had been fitted, Grant UK were denying there was a problem, but we knew something was going wrong because of the frequency and repeated nature of the problems, some oil pumps seized twice.

About this time a letter turned up on my desk from Worcester-Bosch saying something like this.....

Dear Simon, As a Worcester installer we'd like you to know we've been experiencing problems with Riello oil pumps. We are working on a solution with Riello, and you can rest assured we will support you and your customers while we get to the bottom of the problem, which is believed to be down to the lowering of the sulphur content in Kerosene.

Well, Grant used Riello burners too. So that's why we've used Worcester-Bosch since, because they are honourable, honest and they stand by their product. They've invested far more in support than any other boiler manufacturer and it shows, because they want the whole life experience for the customer, and installer, to be good.

Installers who specialize in their products don't receive free holidays but do get longer warranties. Sure, not all Worcester Accredited installers are great, but it is the Wild West out there, they do the best they can to weed out the badun's.

 

[EddyP]

That's good enough for me, Worcester over grant certainly!
I was quite impressed with the warranty from Worcester so long as you use the right installer.

Thanks again